[00:17] Tara Bansal: Welcome to her life, Her Practice, Her Way.

[00:21] A podcast for and about female financial advisors.

[00:26] Tara I’m Tara Conti Bansal. I’ve been a financial planner and life coach for over 20 years.

[00:32] And I believe that when women thrive in this profession, we all win.

[00:38] This show is about sharing our journeys, our struggles, our breakthroughs, and the many ways we build a life and practice that feels true to us.

[00:48] And now I’m extending that mission. Beyond the podcast,

[00:52] I coach female advisors who want to grow a fulfilling practice and a beautiful life that they love.

[01:00] One filled with meaning, freedom, connection and joy.

[01:04] Whether you’re just starting out, reinventing yourself, or dreaming of what’s next, you’re in the right place.

[01:11] Let’s build this together.

[01:14] Hello and welcome to her life, her practice, her way.

[01:19] Tara this is Tara Conti Bantle and I am here with Shawna Dew,

[01:25] who I just think the world of. She has her own financial planning practice called Do Financial.

[01:35] She is a published author and I know her as a rock star leader of our 7:1 group, which is like a form of a mastermind that holds us accountable to accomplishing something.

[01:51] Shanna Due: So welcome. Thank you. How are you? I’m so excited to be here. Woo hoo.

[01:57] Tara Bansal: Yes. I’m gonna start with the question. We always start and I love it. Cause it’s Brene Brown. But what is your story? And I’d like to hear all the way back from little Shauna,

[02:10] where you came from.

[02:13] Shanna Due: I wasn’t prepared to go that far back. I was all set to go adult.

[02:18] So I grew up in, I guess what we would qualify today as a broken home. My parents were divorced.

[02:24] Tara Bansal: How old were you?

[02:25] Shanna Due: I was about 3, 4 when everything really hit the fan and went sideways and crazy. Unfortunately, mom made a really bad choice on a partner and it was really just kind of yuck and violent and that,

[02:40] that hung over for a long time. Even after,

[02:43] you know, court cases were done and custody battles and all that, there was still just kind of this lingering thing which I only bring up because when it comes to money,

[02:51] that was integral. There was a point where we were couch serving, surfing and living out of our car for a while because,

[03:00] and this goes back in time, it’s kind of pertinent right now with things that are going on. But at that time,

[03:05] a woman couldn’t buy her own home. Right. She couldn’t sign for a mortgage, which is crazy to think of in our lifetime. Yes, that couldn’t happen. So they owned a townhouse together.

[03:15] And as part of the divorce decree, it would Be hers.

[03:19] But in the interim, till we could get the tenants out or my mom could get the tenants out of there, we had nowhere to live.

[03:25] And so it was. I. I remember, you know, like everything was in the car and luckily we had friends who took us in and we. But it was couch surfing for a while and I remember that.

[03:36] And I just remember growing up with a single mom and we never.

[03:40] I was fortunate. I never went hungry, but there were money concerns all the time. And then just the costs of divorce and it, it’s ugly and it’s messy and it’s expensive.

[03:53] It is. And I remember that growing up. So that helped shaped cause I’m sure we’re going to get to how I got to where I am today.

[03:59] Some of that, some of those feelings and those memories. And then when I dig into my own money history and how I deal with money, especially when you add a partner to your life and how we talk about money.

[04:13] And then just over the course of our marriage,

[04:16] money comes up and how it bubbles up. And I was laughing, not laughing, but it’s been a long time since I’ve been what I would consider financially insecure.

[04:28] But there are still moments when I take a breath and we talk about where do you feel it at? Where does that.

[04:37] Does it come in your shoulders? Does it hit your stomach? And we’ll have something happen.

[04:42] My daughter came home and her car needs an alignment. She was like, it’s. It’s shaking on the road.

[04:47] And my first thing was like, are you okay? Are you comfortable driving?

[04:50] But then my second one was like,

[04:52] that’s going to be a huge expense. And I was like, it’s okay. Like it’s okay. But. So that kind of shaped little Shawna growing up.

[05:01] And then just how I got to college was also shapes what I do now because that’s my hyper niche in this big financial planning industry and world. I didn’t really know there were choices.

[05:12] My mom, I was the first one in my, in my family to get a bachelor’s degree and go to a four year college. My mom had an associate’s from back in the day when that’s what women did.

[05:21] And so she didn’t really know. Like you could go out and search before the Internet. So it was just whatever was in my high school counselor’s office. We had one counselor for the whole school.

[05:33] So it was just.

[05:34] That’s. I went to the best school I could find nearby.

[05:38] So that kind of got me to school. And then I had.

[05:42] You want me to keep going?

[05:43] Yeah.

[05:44] Tara Bansal: Quick question. Do you have any siblings?

[05:46] Shanna Due: I do. I have an older sister. She’s 16.

[05:49] Well, I have many siblings due to several marriages,

[05:53] but the one who was closest and I lived with the longest was my sister and she is 16 years older than I am.

[05:59] Oh, wow. And then she left.

[06:02] As soon as she turned 18, she left to get out because again, it wasn’t a great place to be. So. But she was very integral on my first few years of my life.

[06:11] Like she was a lot of times she was a caregiver. And so, yeah, those are my siblings.

[06:17] And then when I went to college, I had this big, hairy, audacious, big goal that I was going to be the first woman athletic trainer in the NFL.

[06:28] That’s what I went to college for.

[06:30] I got off.

[06:32] Tara Bansal: And where did that dream come from?

[06:36] Shanna Due: I.

[06:37] When I was in high school, I worked in our athletic training room. I was really interested in how the body moved, how it worked when people got injuries.

[06:46] I was a dancer. So watching my own journey of like, if I got injured or how come some of us can stretch so far and other people can’t.

[06:55] Some people have talent and some people don’t. And so just that was really interesting to me. So then when you’re in high school and they’re doing the career test and this funny little side story,

[07:06] in eighth grade, we had to take a career test, like one of those. And it came back that my ideal career would be a football coach.

[07:14] And I mean, we’re talking in day and age when girls don’t play football, you know, their job was to cheer. So I always thought that was really funny, like I should be a football coach in a world where women don’t play football.

[07:26] Okay.

[07:27] It was a great test.

[07:28] Tara Bansal: It is funny. I wonder how that algorithm even came up with that.

[07:32] Shanna Due: I have no idea. It was a little thing we did in paper, so.

[07:36] Tara Bansal: But you loved football.

[07:38] Shanna Due: I wouldn’t, I didn’t say I love football. I enjoyed football and I spent in high school. I was.

[07:44] We didn’t have a full time athletic trainer. We had a doctor who was a chiropractor who would come in and volunteer to help with the sports teams. That’s how it worked back in the day.

[07:55] So I was the only source for ankle wrappings and ice at practice.

[08:01] I was kind of like a little mini athletic trainer running around and because we didn’t have anyone to really teach me anything, I was trying to read books and figure it out.

[08:11] Tara Bansal: Learn on your own.

[08:11] Shanna Due: Yeah. Without the Internet is. I don’t even know How I did that back then.

[08:16] And so I kind of just got to be my own little thing. So I did the football team, wrestling,

[08:22] traveled with them wherever they went. And then during the summers,

[08:25] I volunteered as a mini athletic trainer to do our national wrestling team, our Colorado team.

[08:32] Wow. So I would go to the freestyle Greco tournaments with them and travel around and learn all these different crazy injuries and stuff. So that’s kind of how it started.

[08:43] Just like, what do you like to do and what are you going to make a career of?

[08:47] Then I got to college and when I went to go apply for grad school, because you have to go to grad school to be an athletic trainer. And I was asking my professors for recommendations, they were like, you’ve done well.

[08:56] Like, we’re more than happy to give them to you. But when we look back at your actual class work, like what you’ve done,

[09:03] and anytime you had a choice, you haven’t chosen to do things on medical research studies or the rehab of an MCL injury after a hyperextension,

[09:13] it was always like, well, what’s the risk mitigation that we could use?

[09:17] Tara Bansal: Or even that term sounds financial planning, business related, right?

[09:23] Shanna Due: Yeah. Or how are we going to fund this giant construction building of a rec center to support whatever. And they were like, why would you consider on your list of physical therapy school, athletic training school,

[09:35] maybe sport administration,

[09:37] we think you’d be suited for that.

[09:39] They were also doing their inaugural year of that graduate program, so there might have helped.

[09:45] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[09:47] Shanna Due: And so that’s what I got my master’s degree in.

[09:50] And then I met the man of my dreams. Didn’t know that at the time, but. And he wore a uniform.

[09:56] And that took us on a journey that just.

[10:01] I mean, we moved every two years and every two years I would recreate a new career.

[10:06] And along the way I started realizing how money,

[10:10] no matter what career I went to or what new identity I formed, there was always money. Whether I was working as I worked for a sports agent in pro sports, so that’s massive amounts of money.

[10:21] But we would be working with recruits going to the combine who came from nothing. And so they’re looking at signing bonuses and how do we help them through that so they aren’t broke after, you know, three years of their NFL career to nonprofit sports like a soccer club.

[10:38] I ran a soccer club for a while. So the money there, between the parents and the students and our coaches that were on H1B visas and money was everywhere. And it touched everything at huge amounts of money, like Astronomical signing bonuses that I couldn’t even imagine as a college graduate clear down to,

[10:57] you know, students that we bring on scholarship.

[11:00] And then being around the military, seeing the different levels there and then watching the military is a prime target for scams or just not necessarily outright bad scammy criminal activity, but just it.

[11:17] Tara Bansal: Taking advantage of.

[11:19] Shanna Due: That’s the right word.

[11:20] I just didn’t want to see that happen anymore. And I was like, you know, reevaluating every time as we do as humans when transition. And what do I want to do?

[11:30] What are, what are my skill sets? How can I make this a job and a career?

[11:35] So I saw in 2003.

[11:39] So for our listeners who were just born then, yes, in 2003, I saw a advertisement that the National Military Families association had a scholarship to become an accredited financial counselor.

[11:50] You could apply and get a scholarship. So every year in my day planner, I wrote that in on the front page with other goals, life goals.

[11:58] And finally in 2014,

[12:00] I applied for the scholarship through FINRA and became a military spouse fellow.

[12:05] And so.

[12:06] Tara Bansal: So more than 10 years, you had that as a goal.

[12:10] Shanna Due: Yeah. Sitting in my day planner like, you should look into this. You should do this. And then we’d move or something. You know, life happened.

[12:18] We had a kid or two.

[12:19] Tara Bansal: Not four.

[12:20] Shanna Due: Two. We did have two.

[12:22] So yeah, in 2014,

[12:23] I finally said, I’m going to apply for this. We were living in Germany at the time, so finding, finding a new job and identity was not really an option. It’s very hard to work in Germany.

[12:34] And so I applied and got it and started all the coursework and got an internship to do my practicum hours. And here we are. That’s how we got to here.

[12:47] How.

[12:49] Tara Bansal: How did you become independent? Because when did that happen and was that a big decision for you?

[12:58] Shanna Due: It was huge.

[12:59] I.

[13:00] The first internship I got to do my practicum hours for my accredited financial counseling certification was amazing. Like he.

[13:09] The firm was. We had a magazine partner who was active in. He was the sole financial planner until I came on.

[13:17] And then there were two silent partners who mostly did our portfolio management behind the scenes, which was great. I love that too.

[13:25] And I learned so much being at that firm. And I was there for about seven years. So I started out as just a little intern writing blogs, trying to figure it all out to eventually being a lead planner, having my own book of clients and working them through all the things we’re holistic planning.

[13:42] So we did everything and I really, really enjoyed it at the same time it was the only firm I knew. It was the only thing. And as I got involved in more organizations like you and I are part of and other communities that I did like with the book through.

[13:58] Wow.

[13:59] There’s a whole world out there of different ways to do this. And what we’re doing here is amazing and great, but there might be other ways to do this.

[14:08] It was also coming off of COVID and that was just all around for all of us. Right. It was a stressful time.

[14:17] But being a financial planner during that time,

[14:20] as you know, was a little crazy. I mean, crazy in 2008. I wasn’t actively involved in 2008 because I was still working with small businesses on the consulting side.

[14:30] So it was different.

[14:31] It was more individual based, like, can this business survive a recession?

[14:36] Not dramatically.

[14:39] Looking at my entire book of clients, trying to figure out what’s going to happen to each one of them because of the industries and the shutdowns. And it was just a lot.

[14:49] And then also we had the kids at home doing skills.

[14:53] Tara Bansal: That was the hardest part.

[14:54] Shanna Due: Yeah. And we lived in a state where everything was shut, shut down. There was no marginal in there.

[15:01] So just doing that. And then we moved. My husband got a new job. And the great part about my career, I love this about it. I’m a hundred percent virtual.

[15:08] So I can live anywhere, literally in the world. As long as I’m not trading,

[15:13] I can live anywhere in the world and do my job.

[15:15] So when he got a new opportunity to move, we moved. And it was just. It was a lot. And I was ready for a change.

[15:23] My firm was great. There was no reason there, but it was just,

[15:27] it’s time to figure this out. So I did the thing we tell our clients not to do.

[15:31] I ran away from something. Not that it was anything bad either. It was just. I ran away, didn’t know what I was running to and was just like,

[15:38] I need a reset. I just need to take a moment to breathe,

[15:43] get to our new house,

[15:45] get the kids back into school, actual school, after being at home for a year and a half,

[15:52] online learning and I mean just. And they’re teenagers,

[15:56] so that’s fun.

[16:01] Teenagers, great.

[16:03] And it was just nice to have that moment to take a breath and then figure out what is it about this profession I really love?

[16:09] What is it I either didn’t like at the old firm, I would love to see it done differently.

[16:15] I went out, I talked to like every advisor I knew or didn’t know. I cold called advisors and was like.

[16:20] Tara Bansal: Hey, how many did you talk to.

[16:23] Shanna Due: Oh, my goodness. Because of the organizations I’m part of, I have a lot. You’re.

[16:28] Tara Bansal: You’re part of a lot. So you’re a connector.

[16:30] Shanna Due: I feel like I make a commitment to meet.

[16:34] I’ve fallen short recently, but my commitment was to meet at least one, have one coffee, get to know you every week,

[16:43] and I’d shoot for two.

[16:45] So over the course of the two years, years before I really solidified this, what I’m doing now,

[16:52] I probably met with over a hundred advisors, either formally or informally of.

[16:58] Just tell me what it is. How do you do what you do? Your story. Tell me your story.

[17:02] Usually professional, we don’t go all the way back.

[17:04] Tara Bansal: Yeah, all the way back. But I like hearing that part.

[17:06] Shanna Due: Yeah.

[17:07] Tara Bansal: Because I do think it has an influence.

[17:09] Shanna Due: Absolutely. I mean,

[17:11] and when I do work with clients, when I’m at a financial holistic capacity,

[17:17] I do ask people, especially couples. I mean, I love to talk to new couples.

[17:23] Old couples, too. Like, couples have been. Not old couples, but couples have been around for a long time too. But getting to new couples to start having some of those conversations early because there’s nothing like.

[17:34] I’m sure you’ve been there. I remember one meeting I had distinctly on a. On a zoom, because I’m all virtual sitting with a couple,

[17:41] and they were talking about doing a home renovation and can we afford it? Can we not? What are we going to have to do? Cash flow pool, all the things to figure out if we to do the home renovation.

[17:50] And I said, well, tell me a little bit more about what the renovation is going to look like. What’s the scope? Because in my mind, I’m like, we got to do a 10% overage and length and all that.

[17:59] And she said one thing about space for the new baby’s crib.

[18:04] And he said, it won’t matter because my mom will be there and it’ll be fine.

[18:11] And I. Yeah, yeah. That’s about what her face did. And she like.

[18:17] Like a Murphy bed. Like we can build in a Murphy bed when she visits. And he was like, no, for when she comes to live with us.

[18:23] And I could tell,

[18:25] even though they’d been.

[18:26] Tara Bansal: That was news too.

[18:27] Shanna Due: It was big news. And so when you can get to these conversations earlier,

[18:32] it helps some of those surprises because now that.

[18:35] That’s a huge issue. And in his mind,

[18:38] it’s. It’s a culture where that’s very common. The eldest son,

[18:41] you know, mom comes to. The eldest son is responsible for the parents. The parents in which case, this was mom. And so in his mind,

[18:50] this was just known.

[18:52] Tara Bansal: It was. Yeah. It was like a fact.

[18:54] Shanna Due: Yeah. Like why, why would you think anything else happened? And in her mind, it just, just that was not a given fact.

[19:04] And had we had the opportunity to maybe talk about that earlier,

[19:07] it would have at least.

[19:09] I mean, it wasn’t like she was opposed, but it, it was a complete shift of,

[19:13] you know, here she was envisioning this beautiful nursery and then playroom and going through. And he’s like, well, no, the kids will still be over there and grandma will be in there.

[19:22] Yeah. When the baby comes, she can help out at nighttime feedings. But that’s mantra.

[19:28] Yeah. So there’s just that. I’m not sure how we got there. Sorry.

[19:31] Tara Bansal: But,

[19:32] but it, that brings up to me an important thing.

[19:36] One that we do is like, try to have these conversations a lot about money because I think we don’t as humans even know the filter that we look through because it’s like at a subconscious level.

[19:55] And your example is a great one of just like, for his culture, that was the expected norm and responsibility and around money, there’s a lot of ingrained things we’ve learned that we don’t even think to vocalize.

[20:15] And especially with couples,

[20:17] I feel like that’s true.

[20:20] Shanna Due: Yeah. And there’s so many couples sometimes like do it yourselfers. Right.

[20:25] Very personal example. Nobody cares about this example. But our seal on our front loading washer is doing the mold thing. Right.

[20:34] So I’m looking at going, okay,

[20:36] you know, my past life,

[20:39] we do it yourself. My mom, she grew up on a farm. We buckle in, we get out the tool belt. We do everything on our own.

[20:46] Two reasons. Number one, she grew up that way. She grew up with depression era parents. You fix everything yourself, you figure out whether it’s, you know, a screw you find in the garage.

[20:54] You don’t go buy anything. You’ve saved everything for this reason.

[20:59] And so. But then there’s also this edge of some people just,

[21:04] that’s not their level of expertise. They don’t diy. We’re going to hire someone to do it.

[21:09] And that becomes innate very early.

[21:12] Tara Bansal: Right.

[21:13] Shanna Due: You know, did you watch dad or mom fixing the dishwasher when it broke or did you see the repairman coming to the door?

[21:20] And it’s a very small thing, but when you start talking about money and do you buy a fix or do you do it yourself? Right. That can become huge, a bigger deal.

[21:30] Yeah,

[21:31] very true. My neighbor’s moving her parents out of Their house. And she’s doing everything herself sort. She will not throw anything away if she thinks it can be used by another organization.

[21:44] Is taking her months, a long time to clean out this house next door.

[21:48] And when we cleaned out my mom’s house, my daughter went after it and she had my mom’s entire apartment cleaned out in about four hours. I mean, my daughter was a machine.

[21:58] She was just like stain trash.

[22:01] Somebody might wear that donate. Like there was no.

[22:06] And so it’s just the difference of how people.

[22:09] If you put that in a household together.

[22:13] It’s true. Really well. Or it can get scary fast.

[22:17] Tara Bansal: And that’s.

[22:18] That’s part of why so many couples.

[22:22] Money is one of the number one things they argue over is I feel like because of where you come from. And the do it yourself or not then gets translated into money.

[22:34] Shanna Due: Absolutely. And I,

[22:36] you know, they say money’s the number one thing that people argue with. And I. I won’t say I take exception to that, but I think money is the symptom.

[22:45] They’re not. Most of the time, couples are not arguing.

[22:48] Tara Bansal: It’s through. Yes. Like that is the expression of something deeper. I agree with you on that. Yeah.

[22:56] Shanna Due: An expectation management.

[22:58] It’s cultural differences.

[23:01] It communicate. I mean, most of the time it’s just communication.

[23:05] Once you talk it through, it’s good. But money is so emotional and dependent upon, you know, like I grew up with fear around money. There was never enough. Or it could always be taken away in a minute.

[23:17] So what. How does that shape the rest of your life?

[23:20] Where if you grew up with.

[23:22] It was never an issue.

[23:24] Like the issue was, do we go to san. You know,

[23:28] St. John’s or Hawaii this year? That’s a big.

[23:32] That’s a big difference. Or are we not going to have enough groceries this month?

[23:37] Yeah. And that gets ingrained really deep.

[23:40] It is.

[23:41] How.

[23:42] Tara Bansal: How have you worked on your. I like to call it money head trash. Like your own issues around money?

[23:53] Shanna Due: We made more. No, I’m just kidding. Well, that’s part of it.

[23:57] Tara Bansal: It is true. Right. Like more than your mom and. Yeah. Not. You know.

[24:04] Shanna Due: We.

[24:05] It took a lot of communication.

[24:07] It took a lot. Especially those first couple years. I’ll. I’ll tell a quick story. I’ll try and make it quick.

[24:14] And my husband’s going to shoot me for telling this story out loud, but he’ll be all right. Um, because I think it’s helpful.

[24:19] So we were married.

[24:20] We got married. And actually just due to my career, like the choice that I made I actually made more when we got married than he was making in the military when we first got married.

[24:30] Tara Bansal: How old were you when you got married?

[24:31] Shanna Due: Uh, 24, 25. Somewhere around there. Just.

[24:36] Tara Bansal: That’s humble.

[24:37] Shanna Due: Yeah. So our first.

[24:39] So we got married. I knew nothing about the military. That’s a whole nother podcast. It was.

[24:44] And we got married in May of 2001.

[24:47] So there’s a little event that happened in September,

[24:50] and it. It rocked the whole system. So I didn’t know anything about that life to begin with. And then I kind of. After a couple years of dating, I was like, oh, okay.

[24:59] I’m starting to see okay, how this works. I don’t really get it, but I’m. I’m kind of getting it. And then September 11th happened, and,

[25:08] whoa, it was all different after that game. Game over. Like,

[25:12] it was a whole new look.

[25:14] So anyway, we moved to our first duty station and we. It’s. He’s going to a school there, so we know we’re not going to be there for a long time.

[25:22] And this is my first experience of having to go out and find a job as a military spouse.

[25:27] And people who.

[25:29] Employers who live around military installations know very well who is a spouse and who isn’t, and they figure it out pretty quick.

[25:36] And they’re not always keen on hiring spouses. Because we leave.

[25:40] Tara Bansal: Yes. In two years or whatever. Yeah.

[25:43] Shanna Due: And the army, it’s usually two years.

[25:45] Sometimes you can get longer. But for our side of the house and for his area of expertise and stuff, it’s two years.

[25:52] So it was really hard when we first got there to find a job.

[25:56] And part of. Because of my money story, my money head trash, I will never be dependent upon another person for money ever. Like,

[26:04] point blank,

[26:06] full stop.

[26:07] We move and I have savings and I still have a car payment and things like that. And at that time, we did not have our money completely joined. We had like a joint account that we put money in together, but we still had our separate accounts.

[26:18] Just how we did it back then. It’s not like that now because it became too much finagling. I’m not finding a job very fast, so I’m having.

[26:27] Just head trash around. Why can’t I find a job? Why am I not valuable here?

[26:33] And because I didn’t understand the fact that as soon as they saw my address that they knew. I didn’t. I didn’t get that yet because I was a new spouse.

[26:40] So I’m going through, like, my resume looks good. It’s really well matched for this job description, what’s going on, all that’s going on.

[26:47] In the meantime, I’m willing down my savings because I still have bills to pay. I still have debt from college. I’m paying it all.

[26:55] And I.

[26:56] There was a night and my husband came home, and I had gone to the grocery store, but I could only get the bare minimum because that’s all I had in my account.

[27:04] Right. I didn’t. I didn’t get any of the extras. No extra coke, which was his crutch at the time.

[27:11] No, none of the extra things. I just got what we needed for dinner. He comes home, he’s like,

[27:16] did you not get any Coke today while you were at the store?

[27:20] And I was like,

[27:21] no, did not. But we weren’t communicating about money, right? This is going much deeper.

[27:26] And I said, no, I didn’t. And he’s like, oh, you know. And he. He had had a really long day. It’s a whole nother story,

[27:33] you know, it’s right after September 11th, so it was a really long day. And he’s like, I really kind of wanted a Coke tonight. And I was like, I know, but we don’t have any.

[27:40] You can go down and go get some down at the gas station if you want to, but there’s none in the house.

[27:45] He was just really disappointed. And so he kind of didn’t get mad, but he was irritated. And he’s like, why,

[27:51] you know, why didn’t you get any? It was on the list and. Because we’d had conversations about the list before,

[27:56] and I said.

[27:58] And I unfortunately lost my temper. I was like, what do you want me to get it with? I have no money. I have no job. Nobody wants to hire me.

[28:05] Like, what do you think? I’m just going to walk in and smile and they’re going to give it to me? And he was just, like,

[28:11] out of my personality to do that. And he was.

[28:13] Tara Bansal: But he’s also like, where’s this coming from exactly?

[28:16] Shanna Due: My mind now, I, dependent upon this person, had nothing to do for me about coke in the refrigerator. It was, I can’t dependency. And you couldn’t.

[28:25] Tara Bansal: You’re breaking your own rule.

[28:28] Shanna Due: Right?

[28:29] It was deep, and it was ugly and came out deep and ugly. And I was. And I said a couple more things. And he’s like, well,

[28:38] how do we fix this? Because he’s very much a fixer, of course.

[28:41] He’s like, how do we fix? He’s like,

[28:43] should I. Should I give you, like, an allowance or how does this work?

[28:48] Oh, My gosh. Like,

[28:50] no.

[28:50] Tara Bansal: Allowance.

[28:51] Shanna Due: It’s the word allowance, to me personally was so,

[28:56] like infantilizing. Did I say that right?

[29:00] And I completely just lost it. Stormed out of the room,

[29:05] stayed in the guest room. Like, wouldn’t come out in this poor. My poor. I could just feel that it was.

[29:13] And we laugh about it now and he laughs about it now because we’ve talked like, we’ve learned how to talk. We’ve learned about that deep rooted that four year old Shauna.

[29:23] Kind of fearful. Yeah.

[29:26] But oh my gosh, she was like, I don’t, I don’t know what to do. So now we, and now in our, in our old age, we can joke about. It’s like, well, if you gave me a bigger allowance, I could, you know, take care of these things.

[29:37] And it’s a joke now. But it was so, so it was such a good lesson for us to learn then. It was incredibly painful. Yay. First year marriage.

[29:46] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[29:47] Shanna Due: But it brought up a lot of our stories and how he didn’t have those kind of worries growing up. And it wasn’t. He didn’t understand why that was a thing. Like,

[29:55] why would that be?

[29:57] What’s wrong? I’ll just give you money. Like. Yeah, you don’t have. In his mind, I will give you money so you don’t have to worry about this and strip your savings and.

[30:05] Yeah.

[30:06] What’s the problem?

[30:08] Tara Bansal: That still didn’t feel good to you because you didn’t want to be dependent on him.

[30:15] Shanna Due: Yeah. Or his own. That core belief underneath.

[30:19] And if you don’t know that going in and you don’t have someone like us and our profession hearing us to help walk couples through that it can just turn really ugly fast and, and stay ugly if.

[30:34] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there were even mo. I mean, he and I were actually having a conversation.

[30:39] I was laughing the other day. I was paying our credit card bill. We pay it off every month.

[30:43] Or one of those families, we just throw everything on there. And then I pay it off at the end of the month.

[30:48] Tara Bansal: That’s how we are.

[30:49] Shanna Due: Yeah, that’s how it is. But I was writing the check the other day and I was like, we, you know, lifestyle creep and just life. Right.

[30:58] Tara Bansal: It felt big.

[30:59] Shanna Due: Have a house. It was a very large amount.

[31:02] And I was laughing and I’d been sorting through some old papers and I was like, you realize we pay off in a month now. What it took me five years through like struggle and sacrifice to pay off from my,

[31:16] from my college debt, like that large number that I had coming out of college. Debt is what we pay.

[31:24] It’s just, it’s a crazy thing to think about. Of where we were and where you are now.

[31:29] Tara Bansal: Yeah. And almost like that you take that for granted, but you had that moment.

[31:35] Shanna Due: Of, I mean, when we were. When I first graduated from college, if my bank account, I always tried to have 200 in there and if it went below 200, I started to panic.

[31:46] Like just,

[31:47] well, I got to do something. I got to do something because.

[31:50] And now I’m, I mean, I won’t say it, but if it goes below a certain number now and it is a lot more than 200.

[31:56] Tara Bansal: Yes.

[31:57] Shanna Due: Same with me and my husband. We just laugh because I’m like, you know, I used to be so scared at 200 and now if it goes under, you know, something has a different amount.

[32:06] Yeah,

[32:08] no, no. Nobody’s spending anything.

[32:12] Nobody’s going anywhere.

[32:14] And he’s like, what, do we not have any money? I was like, no.

[32:17] And we have.

[32:18] Tara Bansal: You do.

[32:19] Shanna Due: Yes. Anyway, so going back. Yeah.

[32:26] Tara Bansal: The questions you were asking these advisors, like what do you love about what you do and what do you feel like you’re good at?

[32:37] Shanna Due: I love. And a common thread. And granted those advisors I interviewed, I self selected. So. So they all have some things in common. You know, they’re all.

[32:49] Tara Bansal: And why did you select them that you like, liked them? Like their practice? What was it?

[32:56] Shanna Due: Well, they’re part, they were part of organizations that I am part of that are in my mind what financial planning can and should look like. It’s more holistic in nature. It gets into, as we’re always talking about, like the crunchy bits, the feely parts, the,

[33:13] the things like you.

[33:14] Tara Bansal: The more than money part.

[33:15] Shanna Due: The more than money, hence the name of the book, the.

[33:19] The what is money for? It’s a tool. It’s not just something we’re striving to get.

[33:25] I didn’t talk to a. I talked to a couple because I wanted to fill that out and see what that was like. But I didn’t talk to a lot of advisors that have ultra, like ultra, ultra high net worth clients because it’s just not something that interests me as much.

[33:39] Yeah. But I did talk to a few just to see is it what I think it is? Like, is it really just trying to figure out how to get someone’s personal jet as a tax write off or how to find their six home in Maui.

[33:50] So it was interesting to talk to those advisors because it’s not necessarily.

[33:54] But there are much bigger, more Complicated issues when you have ultra high net worth families.

[34:00] What I found after talking to them was just one how varied a service plan or a service offering can be between what people offer, how they deliver it,

[34:12] the manner, how often,

[34:15] who they.

[34:16] How they target their best clients that they want to work for, that they do their best work, like how they actually do their marketing funnel. I found all that very fascinating and it really helped me to see what I wanted to do and who I wanted to work with.

[34:32] I figured out I.

[34:33] While I do find the work of ultra high net worth clients as a whole, as a book fascinating,

[34:39] it’s not something I really want to do. Getting into that advanced level of trust like crits and crts and cruts and yeah, it’s just. It’s a lot of intricacy that just I find excite you but not to do every day like I like to hear about it like oh wow,

[34:54] you did that. That’s really neat. But on a day to day basis.

[34:57] Mm.

[34:58] No.

[35:00] I love the. The crunchy part. I love the more financial therapy part. That’s probably a big shocker based on the stories I just rambled on about.

[35:07] But I really love getting to the heart of what makes people tick about money, whether it’s joy or fear.

[35:16] I also,

[35:18] I landed on where I did because I. I do like the idea of niching down and part of what I wanted to do with my career just based on where I am, my experience,

[35:27] frankly my age.

[35:29] I would like to retire or just do it because I want to do it, not because I have to work off.

[35:35] Tara Bansal: You have to.

[35:35] Shanna Due: Yeah.

[35:36] And so that kind of shaped what I wanted to build a little bit based on where I am.

[35:41] My family’s super, super important to me because I only have them for a finite period of time and I didn’t want to spend my time building a big firm right then or.

[35:51] Or building a firm because it is so intense in the beginning.

[35:55] And I really kind of like the idea of just being a subject matter expert in one thing. My old firm, we never really.

[36:02] We.

[36:03] We did our. Our niche, which I don’t really consider a niche was young professionals predom. Not even predominantly, but we would lean towards federal employees or nonprofit workers just because that was what was ingrained in our value system.

[36:17] And that was nice, but we weren’t. It made marketing hard. It made messaging hard because young professionals is really. I mean that’s every.

[36:26] Tara Bansal: Abroad.

[36:27] Shanna Due: Yeah. I mean that’s so.

[36:29] It was interesting. And the managing partner was like, I don’t want to niche down because I he loved the challenge of every person who came different like, oh, they’ve got RSUs, that’s fun.

[36:38] Or they’ve got NUAs, that’s cool. And um, and to me I was like, but I’m not sure that I’m doing a great job of just knowing this about these things as opposed to knowing deep.

[36:51] And not that you’ll know everything.

[36:52] I mean there’s no way you can know everything. But I really liked the idea of being a subject matter expert in one thing.

[37:00] That I could just go super deep and know it off the top of my head very well. I shouldn’t say that. I’ve had two this week where I said I don’t know, I’ll have to get back to you.

[37:09] But usually there’s like I just know it, I’ve seen it,

[37:13] I know what it. I know what it walks, talks and looks like.

[37:16] Tara Bansal: And tell our listeners 1. How long have you been focusing on this and what do you focus on?

[37:24] Shanna Due: So my firm is completely hyper niched down into college planning. How do you strategically choice choose a college that will meet your.

[37:33] There are three pillars to it. You’ve got to have an academic fit and a social fit. But then there’s the financial fit, which to me is just as important because if any one of those breaks away the whole.

[37:43] I call it a three legged table. The whole table falls apart.

[37:47] So I focus just on the financial. I help families figure out the best strategic choice of where they’ll get the most aid. In other words, in our language, they’ll pay the least amount of money and still get the experience they want.

[37:58] I don’t want them to have to overpay for something whether they have the money to write the check for it.

[38:03] Because why pay more for something when you could have that money for something else?

[38:09] Or for the families who really don’t. And there are a lot of opportunities for families to get aid and not have to pay full price and still get a great college experience for all the things they want.

[38:19] So that’s where I really focus down. I also help them on the back end of okay, so you made your choice. Hopefully we got you the most amount of aid.

[38:26] Sometimes family choose a different one and that’s okay too.

[38:29] But now how are you actually going to pay for it? What’s the best, where do we pull the money from?

[38:34] And then if they have to get loans,

[38:36] how do we do that best? Is it.

[38:39] What’s the best way to borrow that money for? Again, the least amount of money, the least Amount of risk,

[38:46] not saddling our children or ourselves with 25 years worth of just an albatross.

[38:51] Yeah. So that’s what I do now. I really like it.

[38:55] Tara Bansal: How long have you been doing it?

[38:57] Shanna Due: Two years now, officially. I mean, I was in it before, but. Yeah.

[39:01] Tara Bansal: Describe a typical relationship, like how long it lasts and how many meetings, things like that.

[39:10] Shanna Due: Typically people come to me in the last hours when they’re at the utmost panicked moment and it’s really just hitting them all at once. So most people come to me senior year.

[39:22] Okay. I love it when I get clients that come in like eighth grade, ninth grade year.

[39:28] Tara Bansal: Okay.

[39:29] Shanna Due: With.

[39:30] And these are nuts and bolts things, but with the income being considered as your prior. Prior tax year. So it’s two years before you’re actually applying to go to school.

[39:38] Tara Bansal: That shows up on the.

[39:40] Shanna Due: Yeah. If there’s any adjustments, we can make an income to make your application look more financially viable for aid. I can’t do anything about income senior year. It’s too late. But if we start freshman year, we can start talking about are there things we can move, sabbatical, second businesses, you know,

[39:58] like, what can we do?

[39:59] Assets we can kind of work on. But even then it’s hard senior year. So then we’re just trying to figure out. It’s more of a strategic choice,

[40:08] finding.

[40:08] Tara Bansal: The best choices that are available with.

[40:11] Shanna Due: The facts we have.

[40:12] So my typical clients will come to me late junior,

[40:16] usually early senior year.

[40:18] But I love it if I can get to them much earlier.

[40:21] Tara Bansal: So the ideal, like you said, is more eighth or ninth grade.

[40:25] Shanna Due: Yeah, yeah. Which is funny. I mean, I actually just had a client come on and she’s like, it seems so weird to come on this early. And I’m like,

[40:32] but now we can shape it and we can start looking at all the other things that are involved.

[40:38] My.

[40:39] My big soapbox right now that none of your listeners asked for, but I’m going to give it anyway, is the idea of sports scholarships versus merit aid.

[40:47] Because so many families put so much into sport right now,

[40:51] like numbers are. When you read the studies, it just makes my heart break sometimes. And I’ve lived through it. Both of my kids are highly competitive athletes in the competitive sport world.

[41:01] And I watch it every weekend sitting on the sidelines, third baseline.

[41:05] And I’m like, there are families out here that are paying money they don’t have for lessons that aren’t going to optimize their choices when, if they put that same amount of money or half of that into SAT tutoring class Tutoring career, like, searching what are the best options there.

[41:23] Their students and their families would have so many more options that weren’t relying on an ACL lasting.

[41:30] And so that’s my, that’s my big soapbox lately. Because the number, it’s a good one.

[41:35] Tara Bansal: Get the word out. Because I feel,

[41:37] I feel like the pressure from the parents and the child, like,

[41:42] this is my one ticket.

[41:44] And they put all their resources into the sport. And I don’t know, there’s so many other one. Leads to burnout, leads to like, no. What if the child no longer is enjoying the sport and part of it is.

[41:59] Is it because of the pressure that they’re under for it?

[42:03] Shanna Due: I have literally heard of dad.

[42:05] The girl came out of the box, she had struck out. Dad pulled her aside. Which A is a no, no. But he’s over at the dugout. He. He’s got his hands up on the fence and he’s like, you better get your act together.

[42:15] You’re not going to college.

[42:17] Tara Bansal: Oh, my gosh, what are we doing?

[42:19] Shanna Due: Like,

[42:19] what are we doing?

[42:21] Or in the group chat, we’re driving cross country to go to Ohio from where I live in Virginia for a tournament. And they’re in the group chat, they’re talking about gas prices of the best place to fill up to save your six cents.

[42:34] Like,

[42:35] we’re traveling cross country, we’re going to spend thousands of dollars in a hotel.

[42:40] And. And I mean, I’m all about saving money. Right? Let’s. Let’s be fruitful. But when you’re that concerned and you’re trying to figure out where’s the nearest discount, you know, like, where’s the nearest Aldi?

[42:50] So we can.

[42:50] Tara Bansal: But it’s also, like, what makes sense. And that’s what you’re trying to help parents understand, what makes sense.

[42:59] Shanna Due: Inch up some test scores and you get automatic marinade at a variety of schools. Not just a school that needs a short stop for the year 2027 that can run and, you know,

[43:14] has an exit velocity of 92. Like,

[43:17] it’s.

[43:18] There’s only one school out there that’s going to need a shortstop from the year 2027 that throws this way and has this style where if you have merit aid, I can give you 15 schools right now that will give you merit aid for a 30, 13, 20 on an ace or on an sat.

[43:35] That’s choices, that’s options. Yeah.

[43:38] Tara Bansal: And it’s probably more options and more.

[43:41] Shanna Due: Options as opposed to, I’ll just go play at whatever school offers me money and if you’re not in a headcount sport, you’re not going to get a lot of money anyway.

[43:49] Right. I mean,

[43:51] so especially in certain sports. And that’s a whole nother story. But yes,

[43:55] that’s what I do now. I’m hyper niched and I, I love it because it’s really helping families in a moment where they are,

[44:03] they have a very serious, serious pain point and it is a life decision.

[44:07] And depending upon where you live in the country and the price of your house, it is the second largest expense you will ever pay.

[44:14] And so few of my colleagues, no offense, that very few of my colleagues are actually helping families with this. They’re helping on the saving side,

[44:23] but they’re not helping with this part of.

[44:25] Tara Bansal: It and not at all. I mean, I feel like I’ve been in this business a long time and I don’t know anyone that does what you do.

[44:33] Shanna Due: Oh, there’s some of us out there.

[44:35] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[44:36] Shanna Due: A lot more of us out there. But it’s not a lot.

[44:39] Tara Bansal: And that’s not typical for sure.

[44:42] Shanna Due: And that’s a whole. I kind of, when I was doing,

[44:44] when I was making the decision you asked how did I get here? When I left my firm that I was with, I had three paths. I could open my own ria, I could go completely into pet, open my own, which was appealing.

[44:57] Although I had just helped grow this other ria. I saw,

[45:01] I know the nuts and bolts.

[45:03] I know how what goes on behind the curtain. And I wasn’t sure I wanted to do that. I could go find a new firm to work for.

[45:10] But that comes with goods and bads too, right? Then I’m working for someone else. I’m helping them fulfill their vision.

[45:17] And maybe when we start together, that vision matches up perfectly. But people grow and change and. Yeah.

[45:24] And for me, when you’re working in a planning firm, those are relationships, which is you asked me what I love about this business and that’s the other part is I love the relationships, which is it’s becoming a little bit of a problem with what I do now.

[45:36] Because what I do now is it’s transact, not long term.

[45:39] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[45:39] Shanna Due: We come in and I get to know families really hard, really fast.

[45:43] We get into a little bit of the money story. Because when it comes to, you know, if I asked you and your husband how, what are your feelings about paying for school?

[45:52] It’s great when you’re on the same page, but sometimes not always true. Yeah. And you know, my, my son’s a senior this year. So even my husband and I, and we’ve had a lot of money talks, poor guy.

[46:04] Because we’re a long way from where we were 25 years ago of an allowance.

[46:09] And I was showing him the numbers of the different schools and how it looks and even then we had conversations of like,

[46:16] are we going to pay that? And I’m like,

[46:19] no, we made an agreement like this. And he’s like, yeah, but it’s kind of the school of his choice. I really see him flourishing there. Isn’t it worth it for us to pay for it?

[46:26] And I’m like,

[46:27] but this school gives him aid.

[46:31] And so it’s so emotional to watch parents go through it and then the students and you know, you got alma maters involved and yeah, there’s a lot of emotions.

[46:43] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[46:43] Shanna Due: Comes in a very short period of time because you have to make, I mean this is a huge season right now. Early decision for most schools is Saturday.

[46:52] Yep. Parents are in it right now. And it, when I get to be there and hopefully help sort that out or put numbers to it, I work, I work with students and parents to see, okay, this is the big number.

[47:08] But, and I’m not disparaging any 17 year old out there, but most of them have a hard time understanding what six figures looks like.

[47:16] And for families who have more than one student, we’re now adding seven figures. If they’re having to write checks, the value is seven figures. If you have more than one student,

[47:25] especially when you add in loans over 25 years, we’re now talking a seven figure decision.

[47:31] Most 17 year olds,

[47:35] they get it in calculus,

[47:37] but they don’t get it in numbers. So I help them break it down to like, okay, you’re going to get a computer science degree from mit. Here’s your expected starting salary as a month after taxes.

[47:48] Here’s what your loan payment looks like. Yeah.

[47:51] Tara Bansal: Compare those.

[47:52] Shanna Due: And then if they, if they don’t have any extended experience, we start looking at, so what is the average apartment look like? You know, if you’re going to live in Boston in a one bedroom apartment in Cambridge because you want to stay there or wherever.

[48:06] They all want to go to New York City, they want to go to NYU and live in the city. I’m like, that’s great.

[48:11] The average apartment in New York city for a one bedroom, you’re looking at 3,600. And that’s not in a great place.

[48:18] No. And if you’re only making a ticket.

[48:19] Tara Bansal: That’S actually much lower than I expected.

[48:24] Shanna Due: That might be with roommates actually.

[48:26] But the point is we can start looking at geography and they, they can kind.

[48:32] It just. It’s easier when it’s only four digits.

[48:35] And then they can do easy math of. Oh, I’m only bringing home 48 and my loan payment is 36.

[48:43] Well, that’s $1200. That’s a lot of money.

[48:46] What’s your car payment?

[48:48] Yeah, let’s talk about your apartment.

[48:49] Tara Bansal: Yeah. What’s your.

[48:50] Shanna Due: Yeah, yeah. Once you put in rent, they’re like, I have no money left. I’m like, no, you don’t.

[48:55] So let’s talk about which school we’re going to go to. Or.

[48:58] And then parents can start seeing it too. Of. Yeah. You. You say you’re going to help your student and that’s fantastic. But we’re looking at a $1200 loan payment for 25 years.

[49:08] Can you, as. As parents who, based on your age and your timeframe and your retirement goals, are you ready to pay $1,200 the next 25 years?

[49:17] Tara Bansal: So do you even get into the parents retirement or. You try not to go there because that seems a little.

[49:24] Shanna Due: So my, my other niche in this world, or at least my business model that I thought would be advantageous partly because laziness is the greatest source of invention. Right.

[49:34] If I work with advisors, which is who I try and market to and who I want to work with, it makes it really easy because when I come back with these numbers, it’s very easy for the advisor to just do a no brainer and they’re like,

[49:47] yeah,

[49:48] that’s not going to work. Or yeah, they have plenty of money. We can serve.

[49:52] Tara Bansal: Okay. Yeah.

[49:53] Shanna Due: If I don’t have an advisor to help us with that decision,

[49:57] I don’t get too much into it because it’s not my area of expertise and I’m not licensed right now, so I’m not state regulated, which is a huge joy.

[50:07] I have no compliance department other than I can’t like lie and stuff. But. And I have my ethics.

[50:14] Tara Bansal: Yes.

[50:14] Shanna Due: Criteria with my certifications, but I don’t have a regulatory compliance department that I have to deal with all the time.

[50:21] Tara Bansal: Do you?

[50:22] Oh, my goodness. I know. That ended abruptly. My power went out right then.

[50:28] So Shauna and I will be back soon with part two of our conversation,

[50:32] but there was just too much good stuff here already not to share it and talk about it right away.

[50:38] Here are a few of the things that really stood out to me.

[50:42] First,

[50:42] I was struck by how intentional Shawna was about designing her firm and her life.

[50:49] She didn’t rush into independence just because everyone else was doing it.

[50:53] She slowed down,

[50:55] did her research,

[50:56] talked to over a hundred advisors and created a plan that truly fits the season of life she’s in right right now.

[51:05] I think that kind of self awareness, knowing what matters most and what we have capacity for,

[51:11] is such a powerful example for all of us and I feel like an ongoing theme for this podcast.

[51:18] Second,

[51:18] I love our discussion around what I call money head trash.

[51:23] We all have it. And I agree with her that most money conflicts aren’t really about money,

[51:30] they’re about something deeper.

[51:31] Values, security,

[51:33] communication,

[51:34] or feeling seen.

[51:36] One of the greatest gifts we can offer our clients and ourselves is to gently uncover those underlying beliefs and see which ones still serve us and which ones don’t.

[51:49] And finally, Shauna’s humility really stayed with me.

[51:53] She’s so incredibly capable and accomplished and yet she talks about herself with such warmth and self deprecating humor.

[52:02] It made me think about how often we as women advisors downplay our strengths.

[52:08] Maybe it’s cultural conditioning, maybe it’s humility,

[52:11] or maybe we just haven’t fully owned how good we really are.

[52:16] So I’ll leave you with this.

[52:18] Where are you being intentional about how you design your life and your practice?

[52:24] Maybe how could you be more intentional?

[52:27] And where might you be minimizing your own gifts?

[52:30] I can’t wait for you to hear part two of this wonderful conversation with Shauna. It’s coming soon.

[52:36] Thank you for listening to her Life, Her Practice, Her Way,

[52:40] a podcast for and about female financial advisors.

[52:45] I truly hope you found something valuable and encouraging in today’s episode.

[52:50] If you did, I’d be so grateful if you’d take a moment to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

[52:58] It helps other phenomenal women in our field find this space.

[53:02] And if you know another advisor who would benefit from these conversations or from the kind of support I offer through coaching,

[53:10] please send this episode to her.

[53:13] If you’re curious about working with me as your coach or interested in being on the podcast, I’d love to hear from you.

[53:21] You can find more details and reach out to me on the contact page of my website.

[53:27] Her Life, her practice herway.com no spaces, no underlines, just the words straight in a row.

[53:36] Until next time, keep building a life and practice you truly love.

• Shanna Due, AFC®, Founder of Due Financial – Learn more about Shanna’s work helping families navigate college planning and financial decision-making: https://www.duefinancial.com

• Book: More Than Money – A collection exploring the emotional and human sides of financial planning, co-authored by Shanna and other financial professionals.

• The Society of Advice – A community founded by Carl Richards dedicated to helping advisors serve with empathy, curiosity, and connection: https://www.thesocietyofadvice.com

• Accredited Financial Counselor (AFC®) program – The designation that launched Shanna’s journey into financial counseling and holistic planning: https://www.afcpe.org

Shanna Due
CCFC, CFP®, AFC®, ChFC®

Shanna Due is a Certified College Financial Consultant (CCFC), Certified Financial Planner™, Accredited Financial Counselor® and contributing author to More Than Money.  

​Her mission is to end the student debt crisis one family at a time. She guides families through the complex financial aid system so that parents don’t have to sacrifice their retirement, and students don’t have financial constraints on their future.  

As a fee-only financial planner she worked with families to align their capital (time, money, attention, energy) with their values and now she does the same for families working through the enormous task of getting the best college experience for the least amount of money.  She doesn’t sell any products or receive commissions; she works for your family.

[00:17] Tara Bansal: Welcome to her life, Her Practice, Her Way.

[00:21] A podcast for and about female financial advisors.

[00:26] Tara I’m Tara Conti Bansal. I’ve been a financial planner and life coach for over 20 years.

[00:32] And I believe that when women thrive in this profession, we all win.

[00:38] This show is about sharing our journeys, our struggles, our breakthroughs, and the many ways we build a life and practice that feels true to us.

[00:48] And now I’m extending that mission. Beyond the podcast,

[00:52] I coach female advisors who want to grow a fulfilling practice and a beautiful life that they love.

[01:00] One filled with meaning, freedom, connection and joy.

[01:04] Whether you’re just starting out, reinventing yourself, or dreaming of what’s next, you’re in the right place.

[01:11] Let’s build this together.

[01:14] Hello and welcome to her life, her practice, her way.

[01:19] Tara this is Tara Conti Bantle and I am here with Shawna Dew,

[01:25] who I just think the world of. She has her own financial planning practice called Do Financial.

[01:35] She is a published author and I know her as a rock star leader of our 7:1 group, which is like a form of a mastermind that holds us accountable to accomplishing something.

[01:51] Shanna Due: So welcome. Thank you. How are you? I’m so excited to be here. Woo hoo.

[01:57] Tara Bansal: Yes. I’m gonna start with the question. We always start and I love it. Cause it’s Brene Brown. But what is your story? And I’d like to hear all the way back from little Shauna,

[02:10] where you came from.

[02:13] Shanna Due: I wasn’t prepared to go that far back. I was all set to go adult.

[02:18] So I grew up in, I guess what we would qualify today as a broken home. My parents were divorced.

[02:24] Tara Bansal: How old were you?

[02:25] Shanna Due: I was about 3, 4 when everything really hit the fan and went sideways and crazy. Unfortunately, mom made a really bad choice on a partner and it was really just kind of yuck and violent and that,

[02:40] that hung over for a long time. Even after,

[02:43] you know, court cases were done and custody battles and all that, there was still just kind of this lingering thing which I only bring up because when it comes to money,

[02:51] that was integral. There was a point where we were couch serving, surfing and living out of our car for a while because,

[03:00] and this goes back in time, it’s kind of pertinent right now with things that are going on. But at that time,

[03:05] a woman couldn’t buy her own home. Right. She couldn’t sign for a mortgage, which is crazy to think of in our lifetime. Yes, that couldn’t happen. So they owned a townhouse together.

[03:15] And as part of the divorce decree, it would Be hers.

[03:19] But in the interim, till we could get the tenants out or my mom could get the tenants out of there, we had nowhere to live.

[03:25] And so it was. I. I remember, you know, like everything was in the car and luckily we had friends who took us in and we. But it was couch surfing for a while and I remember that.

[03:36] And I just remember growing up with a single mom and we never.

[03:40] I was fortunate. I never went hungry, but there were money concerns all the time. And then just the costs of divorce and it, it’s ugly and it’s messy and it’s expensive.

[03:53] It is. And I remember that growing up. So that helped shaped cause I’m sure we’re going to get to how I got to where I am today.

[03:59] Some of that, some of those feelings and those memories. And then when I dig into my own money history and how I deal with money, especially when you add a partner to your life and how we talk about money.

[04:13] And then just over the course of our marriage,

[04:16] money comes up and how it bubbles up. And I was laughing, not laughing, but it’s been a long time since I’ve been what I would consider financially insecure.

[04:28] But there are still moments when I take a breath and we talk about where do you feel it at? Where does that.

[04:37] Does it come in your shoulders? Does it hit your stomach? And we’ll have something happen.

[04:42] My daughter came home and her car needs an alignment. She was like, it’s. It’s shaking on the road.

[04:47] And my first thing was like, are you okay? Are you comfortable driving?

[04:50] But then my second one was like,

[04:52] that’s going to be a huge expense. And I was like, it’s okay. Like it’s okay. But. So that kind of shaped little Shawna growing up.

[05:01] And then just how I got to college was also shapes what I do now because that’s my hyper niche in this big financial planning industry and world. I didn’t really know there were choices.

[05:12] My mom, I was the first one in my, in my family to get a bachelor’s degree and go to a four year college. My mom had an associate’s from back in the day when that’s what women did.

[05:21] And so she didn’t really know. Like you could go out and search before the Internet. So it was just whatever was in my high school counselor’s office. We had one counselor for the whole school.

[05:33] So it was just.

[05:34] That’s. I went to the best school I could find nearby.

[05:38] So that kind of got me to school. And then I had.

[05:42] You want me to keep going?

[05:43] Yeah.

[05:44] Tara Bansal: Quick question. Do you have any siblings?

[05:46] Shanna Due: I do. I have an older sister. She’s 16.

[05:49] Well, I have many siblings due to several marriages,

[05:53] but the one who was closest and I lived with the longest was my sister and she is 16 years older than I am.

[05:59] Oh, wow. And then she left.

[06:02] As soon as she turned 18, she left to get out because again, it wasn’t a great place to be. So. But she was very integral on my first few years of my life.

[06:11] Like she was a lot of times she was a caregiver. And so, yeah, those are my siblings.

[06:17] And then when I went to college, I had this big, hairy, audacious, big goal that I was going to be the first woman athletic trainer in the NFL.

[06:28] That’s what I went to college for.

[06:30] I got off.

[06:32] Tara Bansal: And where did that dream come from?

[06:36] Shanna Due: I.

[06:37] When I was in high school, I worked in our athletic training room. I was really interested in how the body moved, how it worked when people got injuries.

[06:46] I was a dancer. So watching my own journey of like, if I got injured or how come some of us can stretch so far and other people can’t.

[06:55] Some people have talent and some people don’t. And so just that was really interesting to me. So then when you’re in high school and they’re doing the career test and this funny little side story,

[07:06] in eighth grade, we had to take a career test, like one of those. And it came back that my ideal career would be a football coach.

[07:14] And I mean, we’re talking in day and age when girls don’t play football, you know, their job was to cheer. So I always thought that was really funny, like I should be a football coach in a world where women don’t play football.

[07:26] Okay.

[07:27] It was a great test.

[07:28] Tara Bansal: It is funny. I wonder how that algorithm even came up with that.

[07:32] Shanna Due: I have no idea. It was a little thing we did in paper, so.

[07:36] Tara Bansal: But you loved football.

[07:38] Shanna Due: I wouldn’t, I didn’t say I love football. I enjoyed football and I spent in high school. I was.

[07:44] We didn’t have a full time athletic trainer. We had a doctor who was a chiropractor who would come in and volunteer to help with the sports teams. That’s how it worked back in the day.

[07:55] So I was the only source for ankle wrappings and ice at practice.

[08:01] I was kind of like a little mini athletic trainer running around and because we didn’t have anyone to really teach me anything, I was trying to read books and figure it out.

[08:11] Tara Bansal: Learn on your own.

[08:11] Shanna Due: Yeah. Without the Internet is. I don’t even know How I did that back then.

[08:16] And so I kind of just got to be my own little thing. So I did the football team, wrestling,

[08:22] traveled with them wherever they went. And then during the summers,

[08:25] I volunteered as a mini athletic trainer to do our national wrestling team, our Colorado team.

[08:32] Wow. So I would go to the freestyle Greco tournaments with them and travel around and learn all these different crazy injuries and stuff. So that’s kind of how it started.

[08:43] Just like, what do you like to do and what are you going to make a career of?

[08:47] Then I got to college and when I went to go apply for grad school, because you have to go to grad school to be an athletic trainer. And I was asking my professors for recommendations, they were like, you’ve done well.

[08:56] Like, we’re more than happy to give them to you. But when we look back at your actual class work, like what you’ve done,

[09:03] and anytime you had a choice, you haven’t chosen to do things on medical research studies or the rehab of an MCL injury after a hyperextension,

[09:13] it was always like, well, what’s the risk mitigation that we could use?

[09:17] Tara Bansal: Or even that term sounds financial planning, business related, right?

[09:23] Shanna Due: Yeah. Or how are we going to fund this giant construction building of a rec center to support whatever. And they were like, why would you consider on your list of physical therapy school, athletic training school,

[09:35] maybe sport administration,

[09:37] we think you’d be suited for that.

[09:39] They were also doing their inaugural year of that graduate program, so there might have helped.

[09:45] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[09:47] Shanna Due: And so that’s what I got my master’s degree in.

[09:50] And then I met the man of my dreams. Didn’t know that at the time, but. And he wore a uniform.

[09:56] And that took us on a journey that just.

[10:01] I mean, we moved every two years and every two years I would recreate a new career.

[10:06] And along the way I started realizing how money,

[10:10] no matter what career I went to or what new identity I formed, there was always money. Whether I was working as I worked for a sports agent in pro sports, so that’s massive amounts of money.

[10:21] But we would be working with recruits going to the combine who came from nothing. And so they’re looking at signing bonuses and how do we help them through that so they aren’t broke after, you know, three years of their NFL career to nonprofit sports like a soccer club.

[10:38] I ran a soccer club for a while. So the money there, between the parents and the students and our coaches that were on H1B visas and money was everywhere. And it touched everything at huge amounts of money, like Astronomical signing bonuses that I couldn’t even imagine as a college graduate clear down to,

[10:57] you know, students that we bring on scholarship.

[11:00] And then being around the military, seeing the different levels there and then watching the military is a prime target for scams or just not necessarily outright bad scammy criminal activity, but just it.

[11:17] Tara Bansal: Taking advantage of.

[11:19] Shanna Due: That’s the right word.

[11:20] I just didn’t want to see that happen anymore. And I was like, you know, reevaluating every time as we do as humans when transition. And what do I want to do?

[11:30] What are, what are my skill sets? How can I make this a job and a career?

[11:35] So I saw in 2003.

[11:39] So for our listeners who were just born then, yes, in 2003, I saw a advertisement that the National Military Families association had a scholarship to become an accredited financial counselor.

[11:50] You could apply and get a scholarship. So every year in my day planner, I wrote that in on the front page with other goals, life goals.

[11:58] And finally in 2014,

[12:00] I applied for the scholarship through FINRA and became a military spouse fellow.

[12:05] And so.

[12:06] Tara Bansal: So more than 10 years, you had that as a goal.

[12:10] Shanna Due: Yeah. Sitting in my day planner like, you should look into this. You should do this. And then we’d move or something. You know, life happened.

[12:18] We had a kid or two.

[12:19] Tara Bansal: Not four.

[12:20] Shanna Due: Two. We did have two.

[12:22] So yeah, in 2014,

[12:23] I finally said, I’m going to apply for this. We were living in Germany at the time, so finding, finding a new job and identity was not really an option. It’s very hard to work in Germany.

[12:34] And so I applied and got it and started all the coursework and got an internship to do my practicum hours. And here we are. That’s how we got to here.

[12:47] How.

[12:49] Tara Bansal: How did you become independent? Because when did that happen and was that a big decision for you?

[12:58] Shanna Due: It was huge.

[12:59] I.

[13:00] The first internship I got to do my practicum hours for my accredited financial counseling certification was amazing. Like he.

[13:09] The firm was. We had a magazine partner who was active in. He was the sole financial planner until I came on.

[13:17] And then there were two silent partners who mostly did our portfolio management behind the scenes, which was great. I love that too.

[13:25] And I learned so much being at that firm. And I was there for about seven years. So I started out as just a little intern writing blogs, trying to figure it all out to eventually being a lead planner, having my own book of clients and working them through all the things we’re holistic planning.

[13:42] So we did everything and I really, really enjoyed it at the same time it was the only firm I knew. It was the only thing. And as I got involved in more organizations like you and I are part of and other communities that I did like with the book through.

[13:58] Wow.

[13:59] There’s a whole world out there of different ways to do this. And what we’re doing here is amazing and great, but there might be other ways to do this.

[14:08] It was also coming off of COVID and that was just all around for all of us. Right. It was a stressful time.

[14:17] But being a financial planner during that time,

[14:20] as you know, was a little crazy. I mean, crazy in 2008. I wasn’t actively involved in 2008 because I was still working with small businesses on the consulting side.

[14:30] So it was different.

[14:31] It was more individual based, like, can this business survive a recession?

[14:36] Not dramatically.

[14:39] Looking at my entire book of clients, trying to figure out what’s going to happen to each one of them because of the industries and the shutdowns. And it was just a lot.

[14:49] And then also we had the kids at home doing skills.

[14:53] Tara Bansal: That was the hardest part.

[14:54] Shanna Due: Yeah. And we lived in a state where everything was shut, shut down. There was no marginal in there.

[15:01] So just doing that. And then we moved. My husband got a new job. And the great part about my career, I love this about it. I’m a hundred percent virtual.

[15:08] So I can live anywhere, literally in the world. As long as I’m not trading,

[15:13] I can live anywhere in the world and do my job.

[15:15] So when he got a new opportunity to move, we moved. And it was just. It was a lot. And I was ready for a change.

[15:23] My firm was great. There was no reason there, but it was just,

[15:27] it’s time to figure this out. So I did the thing we tell our clients not to do.

[15:31] I ran away from something. Not that it was anything bad either. It was just. I ran away, didn’t know what I was running to and was just like,

[15:38] I need a reset. I just need to take a moment to breathe,

[15:43] get to our new house,

[15:45] get the kids back into school, actual school, after being at home for a year and a half,

[15:52] online learning and I mean just. And they’re teenagers,

[15:56] so that’s fun.

[16:01] Teenagers, great.

[16:03] And it was just nice to have that moment to take a breath and then figure out what is it about this profession I really love?

[16:09] What is it I either didn’t like at the old firm, I would love to see it done differently.

[16:15] I went out, I talked to like every advisor I knew or didn’t know. I cold called advisors and was like.

[16:20] Tara Bansal: Hey, how many did you talk to.

[16:23] Shanna Due: Oh, my goodness. Because of the organizations I’m part of, I have a lot. You’re.

[16:28] Tara Bansal: You’re part of a lot. So you’re a connector.

[16:30] Shanna Due: I feel like I make a commitment to meet.

[16:34] I’ve fallen short recently, but my commitment was to meet at least one, have one coffee, get to know you every week,

[16:43] and I’d shoot for two.

[16:45] So over the course of the two years, years before I really solidified this, what I’m doing now,

[16:52] I probably met with over a hundred advisors, either formally or informally of.

[16:58] Just tell me what it is. How do you do what you do? Your story. Tell me your story.

[17:02] Usually professional, we don’t go all the way back.

[17:04] Tara Bansal: Yeah, all the way back. But I like hearing that part.

[17:06] Shanna Due: Yeah.

[17:07] Tara Bansal: Because I do think it has an influence.

[17:09] Shanna Due: Absolutely. I mean,

[17:11] and when I do work with clients, when I’m at a financial holistic capacity,

[17:17] I do ask people, especially couples. I mean, I love to talk to new couples.

[17:23] Old couples, too. Like, couples have been. Not old couples, but couples have been around for a long time too. But getting to new couples to start having some of those conversations early because there’s nothing like.

[17:34] I’m sure you’ve been there. I remember one meeting I had distinctly on a. On a zoom, because I’m all virtual sitting with a couple,

[17:41] and they were talking about doing a home renovation and can we afford it? Can we not? What are we going to have to do? Cash flow pool, all the things to figure out if we to do the home renovation.

[17:50] And I said, well, tell me a little bit more about what the renovation is going to look like. What’s the scope? Because in my mind, I’m like, we got to do a 10% overage and length and all that.

[17:59] And she said one thing about space for the new baby’s crib.

[18:04] And he said, it won’t matter because my mom will be there and it’ll be fine.

[18:11] And I. Yeah, yeah. That’s about what her face did. And she like.

[18:17] Like a Murphy bed. Like we can build in a Murphy bed when she visits. And he was like, no, for when she comes to live with us.

[18:23] And I could tell,

[18:25] even though they’d been.

[18:26] Tara Bansal: That was news too.

[18:27] Shanna Due: It was big news. And so when you can get to these conversations earlier,

[18:32] it helps some of those surprises because now that.

[18:35] That’s a huge issue. And in his mind,

[18:38] it’s. It’s a culture where that’s very common. The eldest son,

[18:41] you know, mom comes to. The eldest son is responsible for the parents. The parents in which case, this was mom. And so in his mind,

[18:50] this was just known.

[18:52] Tara Bansal: It was. Yeah. It was like a fact.

[18:54] Shanna Due: Yeah. Like why, why would you think anything else happened? And in her mind, it just, just that was not a given fact.

[19:04] And had we had the opportunity to maybe talk about that earlier,

[19:07] it would have at least.

[19:09] I mean, it wasn’t like she was opposed, but it, it was a complete shift of,

[19:13] you know, here she was envisioning this beautiful nursery and then playroom and going through. And he’s like, well, no, the kids will still be over there and grandma will be in there.

[19:22] Yeah. When the baby comes, she can help out at nighttime feedings. But that’s mantra.

[19:28] Yeah. So there’s just that. I’m not sure how we got there. Sorry.

[19:31] Tara Bansal: But,

[19:32] but it, that brings up to me an important thing.

[19:36] One that we do is like, try to have these conversations a lot about money because I think we don’t as humans even know the filter that we look through because it’s like at a subconscious level.

[19:55] And your example is a great one of just like, for his culture, that was the expected norm and responsibility and around money, there’s a lot of ingrained things we’ve learned that we don’t even think to vocalize.

[20:15] And especially with couples,

[20:17] I feel like that’s true.

[20:20] Shanna Due: Yeah. And there’s so many couples sometimes like do it yourselfers. Right.

[20:25] Very personal example. Nobody cares about this example. But our seal on our front loading washer is doing the mold thing. Right.

[20:34] So I’m looking at going, okay,

[20:36] you know, my past life,

[20:39] we do it yourself. My mom, she grew up on a farm. We buckle in, we get out the tool belt. We do everything on our own.

[20:46] Two reasons. Number one, she grew up that way. She grew up with depression era parents. You fix everything yourself, you figure out whether it’s, you know, a screw you find in the garage.

[20:54] You don’t go buy anything. You’ve saved everything for this reason.

[20:59] And so. But then there’s also this edge of some people just,

[21:04] that’s not their level of expertise. They don’t diy. We’re going to hire someone to do it.

[21:09] And that becomes innate very early.

[21:12] Tara Bansal: Right.

[21:13] Shanna Due: You know, did you watch dad or mom fixing the dishwasher when it broke or did you see the repairman coming to the door?

[21:20] And it’s a very small thing, but when you start talking about money and do you buy a fix or do you do it yourself? Right. That can become huge, a bigger deal.

[21:30] Yeah,

[21:31] very true. My neighbor’s moving her parents out of Their house. And she’s doing everything herself sort. She will not throw anything away if she thinks it can be used by another organization.

[21:44] Is taking her months, a long time to clean out this house next door.

[21:48] And when we cleaned out my mom’s house, my daughter went after it and she had my mom’s entire apartment cleaned out in about four hours. I mean, my daughter was a machine.

[21:58] She was just like stain trash.

[22:01] Somebody might wear that donate. Like there was no.

[22:06] And so it’s just the difference of how people.

[22:09] If you put that in a household together.

[22:13] It’s true. Really well. Or it can get scary fast.

[22:17] Tara Bansal: And that’s.

[22:18] That’s part of why so many couples.

[22:22] Money is one of the number one things they argue over is I feel like because of where you come from. And the do it yourself or not then gets translated into money.

[22:34] Shanna Due: Absolutely. And I,

[22:36] you know, they say money’s the number one thing that people argue with. And I. I won’t say I take exception to that, but I think money is the symptom.

[22:45] They’re not. Most of the time, couples are not arguing.

[22:48] Tara Bansal: It’s through. Yes. Like that is the expression of something deeper. I agree with you on that. Yeah.

[22:56] Shanna Due: An expectation management.

[22:58] It’s cultural differences.

[23:01] It communicate. I mean, most of the time it’s just communication.

[23:05] Once you talk it through, it’s good. But money is so emotional and dependent upon, you know, like I grew up with fear around money. There was never enough. Or it could always be taken away in a minute.

[23:17] So what. How does that shape the rest of your life?

[23:20] Where if you grew up with.

[23:22] It was never an issue.

[23:24] Like the issue was, do we go to san. You know,

[23:28] St. John’s or Hawaii this year? That’s a big.

[23:32] That’s a big difference. Or are we not going to have enough groceries this month?

[23:37] Yeah. And that gets ingrained really deep.

[23:40] It is.

[23:41] How.

[23:42] Tara Bansal: How have you worked on your. I like to call it money head trash. Like your own issues around money?

[23:53] Shanna Due: We made more. No, I’m just kidding. Well, that’s part of it.

[23:57] Tara Bansal: It is true. Right. Like more than your mom and. Yeah. Not. You know.

[24:04] Shanna Due: We.

[24:05] It took a lot of communication.

[24:07] It took a lot. Especially those first couple years. I’ll. I’ll tell a quick story. I’ll try and make it quick.

[24:14] And my husband’s going to shoot me for telling this story out loud, but he’ll be all right. Um, because I think it’s helpful.

[24:19] So we were married.

[24:20] We got married. And actually just due to my career, like the choice that I made I actually made more when we got married than he was making in the military when we first got married.

[24:30] Tara Bansal: How old were you when you got married?

[24:31] Shanna Due: Uh, 24, 25. Somewhere around there. Just.

[24:36] Tara Bansal: That’s humble.

[24:37] Shanna Due: Yeah. So our first.

[24:39] So we got married. I knew nothing about the military. That’s a whole nother podcast. It was.

[24:44] And we got married in May of 2001.

[24:47] So there’s a little event that happened in September,

[24:50] and it. It rocked the whole system. So I didn’t know anything about that life to begin with. And then I kind of. After a couple years of dating, I was like, oh, okay.

[24:59] I’m starting to see okay, how this works. I don’t really get it, but I’m. I’m kind of getting it. And then September 11th happened, and,

[25:08] whoa, it was all different after that game. Game over. Like,

[25:12] it was a whole new look.

[25:14] So anyway, we moved to our first duty station and we. It’s. He’s going to a school there, so we know we’re not going to be there for a long time.

[25:22] And this is my first experience of having to go out and find a job as a military spouse.

[25:27] And people who.

[25:29] Employers who live around military installations know very well who is a spouse and who isn’t, and they figure it out pretty quick.

[25:36] And they’re not always keen on hiring spouses. Because we leave.

[25:40] Tara Bansal: Yes. In two years or whatever. Yeah.

[25:43] Shanna Due: And the army, it’s usually two years.

[25:45] Sometimes you can get longer. But for our side of the house and for his area of expertise and stuff, it’s two years.

[25:52] So it was really hard when we first got there to find a job.

[25:56] And part of. Because of my money story, my money head trash, I will never be dependent upon another person for money ever. Like,

[26:04] point blank,

[26:06] full stop.

[26:07] We move and I have savings and I still have a car payment and things like that. And at that time, we did not have our money completely joined. We had like a joint account that we put money in together, but we still had our separate accounts.

[26:18] Just how we did it back then. It’s not like that now because it became too much finagling. I’m not finding a job very fast, so I’m having.

[26:27] Just head trash around. Why can’t I find a job? Why am I not valuable here?

[26:33] And because I didn’t understand the fact that as soon as they saw my address that they knew. I didn’t. I didn’t get that yet because I was a new spouse.

[26:40] So I’m going through, like, my resume looks good. It’s really well matched for this job description, what’s going on, all that’s going on.

[26:47] In the meantime, I’m willing down my savings because I still have bills to pay. I still have debt from college. I’m paying it all.

[26:55] And I.

[26:56] There was a night and my husband came home, and I had gone to the grocery store, but I could only get the bare minimum because that’s all I had in my account.

[27:04] Right. I didn’t. I didn’t get any of the extras. No extra coke, which was his crutch at the time.

[27:11] No, none of the extra things. I just got what we needed for dinner. He comes home, he’s like,

[27:16] did you not get any Coke today while you were at the store?

[27:20] And I was like,

[27:21] no, did not. But we weren’t communicating about money, right? This is going much deeper.

[27:26] And I said, no, I didn’t. And he’s like, oh, you know. And he. He had had a really long day. It’s a whole nother story,

[27:33] you know, it’s right after September 11th, so it was a really long day. And he’s like, I really kind of wanted a Coke tonight. And I was like, I know, but we don’t have any.

[27:40] You can go down and go get some down at the gas station if you want to, but there’s none in the house.

[27:45] He was just really disappointed. And so he kind of didn’t get mad, but he was irritated. And he’s like, why,

[27:51] you know, why didn’t you get any? It was on the list and. Because we’d had conversations about the list before,

[27:56] and I said.

[27:58] And I unfortunately lost my temper. I was like, what do you want me to get it with? I have no money. I have no job. Nobody wants to hire me.

[28:05] Like, what do you think? I’m just going to walk in and smile and they’re going to give it to me? And he was just, like,

[28:11] out of my personality to do that. And he was.

[28:13] Tara Bansal: But he’s also like, where’s this coming from exactly?

[28:16] Shanna Due: My mind now, I, dependent upon this person, had nothing to do for me about coke in the refrigerator. It was, I can’t dependency. And you couldn’t.

[28:25] Tara Bansal: You’re breaking your own rule.

[28:28] Shanna Due: Right?

[28:29] It was deep, and it was ugly and came out deep and ugly. And I was. And I said a couple more things. And he’s like, well,

[28:38] how do we fix this? Because he’s very much a fixer, of course.

[28:41] He’s like, how do we fix? He’s like,

[28:43] should I. Should I give you, like, an allowance or how does this work?

[28:48] Oh, My gosh. Like,

[28:50] no.

[28:50] Tara Bansal: Allowance.

[28:51] Shanna Due: It’s the word allowance, to me personally was so,

[28:56] like infantilizing. Did I say that right?

[29:00] And I completely just lost it. Stormed out of the room,

[29:05] stayed in the guest room. Like, wouldn’t come out in this poor. My poor. I could just feel that it was.

[29:13] And we laugh about it now and he laughs about it now because we’ve talked like, we’ve learned how to talk. We’ve learned about that deep rooted that four year old Shauna.

[29:23] Kind of fearful. Yeah.

[29:26] But oh my gosh, she was like, I don’t, I don’t know what to do. So now we, and now in our, in our old age, we can joke about. It’s like, well, if you gave me a bigger allowance, I could, you know, take care of these things.

[29:37] And it’s a joke now. But it was so, so it was such a good lesson for us to learn then. It was incredibly painful. Yay. First year marriage.

[29:46] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[29:47] Shanna Due: But it brought up a lot of our stories and how he didn’t have those kind of worries growing up. And it wasn’t. He didn’t understand why that was a thing. Like,

[29:55] why would that be?

[29:57] What’s wrong? I’ll just give you money. Like. Yeah, you don’t have. In his mind, I will give you money so you don’t have to worry about this and strip your savings and.

[30:05] Yeah.

[30:06] What’s the problem?

[30:08] Tara Bansal: That still didn’t feel good to you because you didn’t want to be dependent on him.

[30:15] Shanna Due: Yeah. Or his own. That core belief underneath.

[30:19] And if you don’t know that going in and you don’t have someone like us and our profession hearing us to help walk couples through that it can just turn really ugly fast and, and stay ugly if.

[30:34] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there were even mo. I mean, he and I were actually having a conversation.

[30:39] I was laughing the other day. I was paying our credit card bill. We pay it off every month.

[30:43] Or one of those families, we just throw everything on there. And then I pay it off at the end of the month.

[30:48] Tara Bansal: That’s how we are.

[30:49] Shanna Due: Yeah, that’s how it is. But I was writing the check the other day and I was like, we, you know, lifestyle creep and just life. Right.

[30:58] Tara Bansal: It felt big.

[30:59] Shanna Due: Have a house. It was a very large amount.

[31:02] And I was laughing and I’d been sorting through some old papers and I was like, you realize we pay off in a month now. What it took me five years through like struggle and sacrifice to pay off from my,

[31:16] from my college debt, like that large number that I had coming out of college. Debt is what we pay.

[31:24] It’s just, it’s a crazy thing to think about. Of where we were and where you are now.

[31:29] Tara Bansal: Yeah. And almost like that you take that for granted, but you had that moment.

[31:35] Shanna Due: Of, I mean, when we were. When I first graduated from college, if my bank account, I always tried to have 200 in there and if it went below 200, I started to panic.

[31:46] Like just,

[31:47] well, I got to do something. I got to do something because.

[31:50] And now I’m, I mean, I won’t say it, but if it goes below a certain number now and it is a lot more than 200.

[31:56] Tara Bansal: Yes.

[31:57] Shanna Due: Same with me and my husband. We just laugh because I’m like, you know, I used to be so scared at 200 and now if it goes under, you know, something has a different amount.

[32:06] Yeah,

[32:08] no, no. Nobody’s spending anything.

[32:12] Nobody’s going anywhere.

[32:14] And he’s like, what, do we not have any money? I was like, no.

[32:17] And we have.

[32:18] Tara Bansal: You do.

[32:19] Shanna Due: Yes. Anyway, so going back. Yeah.

[32:26] Tara Bansal: The questions you were asking these advisors, like what do you love about what you do and what do you feel like you’re good at?

[32:37] Shanna Due: I love. And a common thread. And granted those advisors I interviewed, I self selected. So. So they all have some things in common. You know, they’re all.

[32:49] Tara Bansal: And why did you select them that you like, liked them? Like their practice? What was it?

[32:56] Shanna Due: Well, they’re part, they were part of organizations that I am part of that are in my mind what financial planning can and should look like. It’s more holistic in nature. It gets into, as we’re always talking about, like the crunchy bits, the feely parts, the,

[33:13] the things like you.

[33:14] Tara Bansal: The more than money part.

[33:15] Shanna Due: The more than money, hence the name of the book, the.

[33:19] The what is money for? It’s a tool. It’s not just something we’re striving to get.

[33:25] I didn’t talk to a. I talked to a couple because I wanted to fill that out and see what that was like. But I didn’t talk to a lot of advisors that have ultra, like ultra, ultra high net worth clients because it’s just not something that interests me as much.

[33:39] Yeah. But I did talk to a few just to see is it what I think it is? Like, is it really just trying to figure out how to get someone’s personal jet as a tax write off or how to find their six home in Maui.

[33:50] So it was interesting to talk to those advisors because it’s not necessarily.

[33:54] But there are much bigger, more Complicated issues when you have ultra high net worth families.

[34:00] What I found after talking to them was just one how varied a service plan or a service offering can be between what people offer, how they deliver it,

[34:12] the manner, how often,

[34:15] who they.

[34:16] How they target their best clients that they want to work for, that they do their best work, like how they actually do their marketing funnel. I found all that very fascinating and it really helped me to see what I wanted to do and who I wanted to work with.

[34:32] I figured out I.

[34:33] While I do find the work of ultra high net worth clients as a whole, as a book fascinating,

[34:39] it’s not something I really want to do. Getting into that advanced level of trust like crits and crts and cruts and yeah, it’s just. It’s a lot of intricacy that just I find excite you but not to do every day like I like to hear about it like oh wow,

[34:54] you did that. That’s really neat. But on a day to day basis.

[34:57] Mm.

[34:58] No.

[35:00] I love the. The crunchy part. I love the more financial therapy part. That’s probably a big shocker based on the stories I just rambled on about.

[35:07] But I really love getting to the heart of what makes people tick about money, whether it’s joy or fear.

[35:16] I also,

[35:18] I landed on where I did because I. I do like the idea of niching down and part of what I wanted to do with my career just based on where I am, my experience,

[35:27] frankly my age.

[35:29] I would like to retire or just do it because I want to do it, not because I have to work off.

[35:35] Tara Bansal: You have to.

[35:35] Shanna Due: Yeah.

[35:36] And so that kind of shaped what I wanted to build a little bit based on where I am.

[35:41] My family’s super, super important to me because I only have them for a finite period of time and I didn’t want to spend my time building a big firm right then or.

[35:51] Or building a firm because it is so intense in the beginning.

[35:55] And I really kind of like the idea of just being a subject matter expert in one thing. My old firm, we never really.

[36:02] We.

[36:03] We did our. Our niche, which I don’t really consider a niche was young professionals predom. Not even predominantly, but we would lean towards federal employees or nonprofit workers just because that was what was ingrained in our value system.

[36:17] And that was nice, but we weren’t. It made marketing hard. It made messaging hard because young professionals is really. I mean that’s every.

[36:26] Tara Bansal: Abroad.

[36:27] Shanna Due: Yeah. I mean that’s so.

[36:29] It was interesting. And the managing partner was like, I don’t want to niche down because I he loved the challenge of every person who came different like, oh, they’ve got RSUs, that’s fun.

[36:38] Or they’ve got NUAs, that’s cool. And um, and to me I was like, but I’m not sure that I’m doing a great job of just knowing this about these things as opposed to knowing deep.

[36:51] And not that you’ll know everything.

[36:52] I mean there’s no way you can know everything. But I really liked the idea of being a subject matter expert in one thing.

[37:00] That I could just go super deep and know it off the top of my head very well. I shouldn’t say that. I’ve had two this week where I said I don’t know, I’ll have to get back to you.

[37:09] But usually there’s like I just know it, I’ve seen it,

[37:13] I know what it. I know what it walks, talks and looks like.

[37:16] Tara Bansal: And tell our listeners 1. How long have you been focusing on this and what do you focus on?

[37:24] Shanna Due: So my firm is completely hyper niched down into college planning. How do you strategically choice choose a college that will meet your.

[37:33] There are three pillars to it. You’ve got to have an academic fit and a social fit. But then there’s the financial fit, which to me is just as important because if any one of those breaks away the whole.

[37:43] I call it a three legged table. The whole table falls apart.

[37:47] So I focus just on the financial. I help families figure out the best strategic choice of where they’ll get the most aid. In other words, in our language, they’ll pay the least amount of money and still get the experience they want.

[37:58] I don’t want them to have to overpay for something whether they have the money to write the check for it.

[38:03] Because why pay more for something when you could have that money for something else?

[38:09] Or for the families who really don’t. And there are a lot of opportunities for families to get aid and not have to pay full price and still get a great college experience for all the things they want.

[38:19] So that’s where I really focus down. I also help them on the back end of okay, so you made your choice. Hopefully we got you the most amount of aid.

[38:26] Sometimes family choose a different one and that’s okay too.

[38:29] But now how are you actually going to pay for it? What’s the best, where do we pull the money from?

[38:34] And then if they have to get loans,

[38:36] how do we do that best? Is it.

[38:39] What’s the best way to borrow that money for? Again, the least amount of money, the least Amount of risk,

[38:46] not saddling our children or ourselves with 25 years worth of just an albatross.

[38:51] Yeah. So that’s what I do now. I really like it.

[38:55] Tara Bansal: How long have you been doing it?

[38:57] Shanna Due: Two years now, officially. I mean, I was in it before, but. Yeah.

[39:01] Tara Bansal: Describe a typical relationship, like how long it lasts and how many meetings, things like that.

[39:10] Shanna Due: Typically people come to me in the last hours when they’re at the utmost panicked moment and it’s really just hitting them all at once. So most people come to me senior year.

[39:22] Okay. I love it when I get clients that come in like eighth grade, ninth grade year.

[39:28] Tara Bansal: Okay.

[39:29] Shanna Due: With.

[39:30] And these are nuts and bolts things, but with the income being considered as your prior. Prior tax year. So it’s two years before you’re actually applying to go to school.

[39:38] Tara Bansal: That shows up on the.

[39:40] Shanna Due: Yeah. If there’s any adjustments, we can make an income to make your application look more financially viable for aid. I can’t do anything about income senior year. It’s too late. But if we start freshman year, we can start talking about are there things we can move, sabbatical, second businesses, you know,

[39:58] like, what can we do?

[39:59] Assets we can kind of work on. But even then it’s hard senior year. So then we’re just trying to figure out. It’s more of a strategic choice,

[40:08] finding.

[40:08] Tara Bansal: The best choices that are available with.

[40:11] Shanna Due: The facts we have.

[40:12] So my typical clients will come to me late junior,

[40:16] usually early senior year.

[40:18] But I love it if I can get to them much earlier.

[40:21] Tara Bansal: So the ideal, like you said, is more eighth or ninth grade.

[40:25] Shanna Due: Yeah, yeah. Which is funny. I mean, I actually just had a client come on and she’s like, it seems so weird to come on this early. And I’m like,

[40:32] but now we can shape it and we can start looking at all the other things that are involved.

[40:38] My.

[40:39] My big soapbox right now that none of your listeners asked for, but I’m going to give it anyway, is the idea of sports scholarships versus merit aid.

[40:47] Because so many families put so much into sport right now,

[40:51] like numbers are. When you read the studies, it just makes my heart break sometimes. And I’ve lived through it. Both of my kids are highly competitive athletes in the competitive sport world.

[41:01] And I watch it every weekend sitting on the sidelines, third baseline.

[41:05] And I’m like, there are families out here that are paying money they don’t have for lessons that aren’t going to optimize their choices when, if they put that same amount of money or half of that into SAT tutoring class Tutoring career, like, searching what are the best options there.

[41:23] Their students and their families would have so many more options that weren’t relying on an ACL lasting.

[41:30] And so that’s my, that’s my big soapbox lately. Because the number, it’s a good one.

[41:35] Tara Bansal: Get the word out. Because I feel,

[41:37] I feel like the pressure from the parents and the child, like,

[41:42] this is my one ticket.

[41:44] And they put all their resources into the sport. And I don’t know, there’s so many other one. Leads to burnout, leads to like, no. What if the child no longer is enjoying the sport and part of it is.

[41:59] Is it because of the pressure that they’re under for it?

[42:03] Shanna Due: I have literally heard of dad.

[42:05] The girl came out of the box, she had struck out. Dad pulled her aside. Which A is a no, no. But he’s over at the dugout. He. He’s got his hands up on the fence and he’s like, you better get your act together.

[42:15] You’re not going to college.

[42:17] Tara Bansal: Oh, my gosh, what are we doing?

[42:19] Shanna Due: Like,

[42:19] what are we doing?

[42:21] Or in the group chat, we’re driving cross country to go to Ohio from where I live in Virginia for a tournament. And they’re in the group chat, they’re talking about gas prices of the best place to fill up to save your six cents.

[42:34] Like,

[42:35] we’re traveling cross country, we’re going to spend thousands of dollars in a hotel.

[42:40] And. And I mean, I’m all about saving money. Right? Let’s. Let’s be fruitful. But when you’re that concerned and you’re trying to figure out where’s the nearest discount, you know, like, where’s the nearest Aldi?

[42:50] So we can.

[42:50] Tara Bansal: But it’s also, like, what makes sense. And that’s what you’re trying to help parents understand, what makes sense.

[42:59] Shanna Due: Inch up some test scores and you get automatic marinade at a variety of schools. Not just a school that needs a short stop for the year 2027 that can run and, you know,

[43:14] has an exit velocity of 92. Like,

[43:17] it’s.

[43:18] There’s only one school out there that’s going to need a shortstop from the year 2027 that throws this way and has this style where if you have merit aid, I can give you 15 schools right now that will give you merit aid for a 30, 13, 20 on an ace or on an sat.

[43:35] That’s choices, that’s options. Yeah.

[43:38] Tara Bansal: And it’s probably more options and more.

[43:41] Shanna Due: Options as opposed to, I’ll just go play at whatever school offers me money and if you’re not in a headcount sport, you’re not going to get a lot of money anyway.

[43:49] Right. I mean,

[43:51] so especially in certain sports. And that’s a whole nother story. But yes,

[43:55] that’s what I do now. I’m hyper niched and I, I love it because it’s really helping families in a moment where they are,

[44:03] they have a very serious, serious pain point and it is a life decision.

[44:07] And depending upon where you live in the country and the price of your house, it is the second largest expense you will ever pay.

[44:14] And so few of my colleagues, no offense, that very few of my colleagues are actually helping families with this. They’re helping on the saving side,

[44:23] but they’re not helping with this part of.

[44:25] Tara Bansal: It and not at all. I mean, I feel like I’ve been in this business a long time and I don’t know anyone that does what you do.

[44:33] Shanna Due: Oh, there’s some of us out there.

[44:35] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[44:36] Shanna Due: A lot more of us out there. But it’s not a lot.

[44:39] Tara Bansal: And that’s not typical for sure.

[44:42] Shanna Due: And that’s a whole. I kind of, when I was doing,

[44:44] when I was making the decision you asked how did I get here? When I left my firm that I was with, I had three paths. I could open my own ria, I could go completely into pet, open my own, which was appealing.

[44:57] Although I had just helped grow this other ria. I saw,

[45:01] I know the nuts and bolts.

[45:03] I know how what goes on behind the curtain. And I wasn’t sure I wanted to do that. I could go find a new firm to work for.

[45:10] But that comes with goods and bads too, right? Then I’m working for someone else. I’m helping them fulfill their vision.

[45:17] And maybe when we start together, that vision matches up perfectly. But people grow and change and. Yeah.

[45:24] And for me, when you’re working in a planning firm, those are relationships, which is you asked me what I love about this business and that’s the other part is I love the relationships, which is it’s becoming a little bit of a problem with what I do now.

[45:36] Because what I do now is it’s transact, not long term.

[45:39] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[45:39] Shanna Due: We come in and I get to know families really hard, really fast.

[45:43] We get into a little bit of the money story. Because when it comes to, you know, if I asked you and your husband how, what are your feelings about paying for school?

[45:52] It’s great when you’re on the same page, but sometimes not always true. Yeah. And you know, my, my son’s a senior this year. So even my husband and I, and we’ve had a lot of money talks, poor guy.

[46:04] Because we’re a long way from where we were 25 years ago of an allowance.

[46:09] And I was showing him the numbers of the different schools and how it looks and even then we had conversations of like,

[46:16] are we going to pay that? And I’m like,

[46:19] no, we made an agreement like this. And he’s like, yeah, but it’s kind of the school of his choice. I really see him flourishing there. Isn’t it worth it for us to pay for it?

[46:26] And I’m like,

[46:27] but this school gives him aid.

[46:31] And so it’s so emotional to watch parents go through it and then the students and you know, you got alma maters involved and yeah, there’s a lot of emotions.

[46:43] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[46:43] Shanna Due: Comes in a very short period of time because you have to make, I mean this is a huge season right now. Early decision for most schools is Saturday.

[46:52] Yep. Parents are in it right now. And it, when I get to be there and hopefully help sort that out or put numbers to it, I work, I work with students and parents to see, okay, this is the big number.

[47:08] But, and I’m not disparaging any 17 year old out there, but most of them have a hard time understanding what six figures looks like.

[47:16] And for families who have more than one student, we’re now adding seven figures. If they’re having to write checks, the value is seven figures. If you have more than one student,

[47:25] especially when you add in loans over 25 years, we’re now talking a seven figure decision.

[47:31] Most 17 year olds,

[47:35] they get it in calculus,

[47:37] but they don’t get it in numbers. So I help them break it down to like, okay, you’re going to get a computer science degree from mit. Here’s your expected starting salary as a month after taxes.

[47:48] Here’s what your loan payment looks like. Yeah.

[47:51] Tara Bansal: Compare those.

[47:52] Shanna Due: And then if they, if they don’t have any extended experience, we start looking at, so what is the average apartment look like? You know, if you’re going to live in Boston in a one bedroom apartment in Cambridge because you want to stay there or wherever.

[48:06] They all want to go to New York City, they want to go to NYU and live in the city. I’m like, that’s great.

[48:11] The average apartment in New York city for a one bedroom, you’re looking at 3,600. And that’s not in a great place.

[48:18] No. And if you’re only making a ticket.

[48:19] Tara Bansal: That’S actually much lower than I expected.

[48:24] Shanna Due: That might be with roommates actually.

[48:26] But the point is we can start looking at geography and they, they can kind.

[48:32] It just. It’s easier when it’s only four digits.

[48:35] And then they can do easy math of. Oh, I’m only bringing home 48 and my loan payment is 36.

[48:43] Well, that’s $1200. That’s a lot of money.

[48:46] What’s your car payment?

[48:48] Yeah, let’s talk about your apartment.

[48:49] Tara Bansal: Yeah. What’s your.

[48:50] Shanna Due: Yeah, yeah. Once you put in rent, they’re like, I have no money left. I’m like, no, you don’t.

[48:55] So let’s talk about which school we’re going to go to. Or.

[48:58] And then parents can start seeing it too. Of. Yeah. You. You say you’re going to help your student and that’s fantastic. But we’re looking at a $1200 loan payment for 25 years.

[49:08] Can you, as. As parents who, based on your age and your timeframe and your retirement goals, are you ready to pay $1,200 the next 25 years?

[49:17] Tara Bansal: So do you even get into the parents retirement or. You try not to go there because that seems a little.

[49:24] Shanna Due: So my, my other niche in this world, or at least my business model that I thought would be advantageous partly because laziness is the greatest source of invention. Right.

[49:34] If I work with advisors, which is who I try and market to and who I want to work with, it makes it really easy because when I come back with these numbers, it’s very easy for the advisor to just do a no brainer and they’re like,

[49:47] yeah,

[49:48] that’s not going to work. Or yeah, they have plenty of money. We can serve.

[49:52] Tara Bansal: Okay. Yeah.

[49:53] Shanna Due: If I don’t have an advisor to help us with that decision,

[49:57] I don’t get too much into it because it’s not my area of expertise and I’m not licensed right now, so I’m not state regulated, which is a huge joy.

[50:07] I have no compliance department other than I can’t like lie and stuff. But. And I have my ethics.

[50:14] Tara Bansal: Yes.

[50:14] Shanna Due: Criteria with my certifications, but I don’t have a regulatory compliance department that I have to deal with all the time.

[50:21] Tara Bansal: Do you?

[50:22] Oh, my goodness. I know. That ended abruptly. My power went out right then.

[50:28] So Shauna and I will be back soon with part two of our conversation,

[50:32] but there was just too much good stuff here already not to share it and talk about it right away.

[50:38] Here are a few of the things that really stood out to me.

[50:42] First,

[50:42] I was struck by how intentional Shawna was about designing her firm and her life.

[50:49] She didn’t rush into independence just because everyone else was doing it.

[50:53] She slowed down,

[50:55] did her research,

[50:56] talked to over a hundred advisors and created a plan that truly fits the season of life she’s in right right now.

[51:05] I think that kind of self awareness, knowing what matters most and what we have capacity for,

[51:11] is such a powerful example for all of us and I feel like an ongoing theme for this podcast.

[51:18] Second,

[51:18] I love our discussion around what I call money head trash.

[51:23] We all have it. And I agree with her that most money conflicts aren’t really about money,

[51:30] they’re about something deeper.

[51:31] Values, security,

[51:33] communication,

[51:34] or feeling seen.

[51:36] One of the greatest gifts we can offer our clients and ourselves is to gently uncover those underlying beliefs and see which ones still serve us and which ones don’t.

[51:49] And finally, Shauna’s humility really stayed with me.

[51:53] She’s so incredibly capable and accomplished and yet she talks about herself with such warmth and self deprecating humor.

[52:02] It made me think about how often we as women advisors downplay our strengths.

[52:08] Maybe it’s cultural conditioning, maybe it’s humility,

[52:11] or maybe we just haven’t fully owned how good we really are.

[52:16] So I’ll leave you with this.

[52:18] Where are you being intentional about how you design your life and your practice?

[52:24] Maybe how could you be more intentional?

[52:27] And where might you be minimizing your own gifts?

[52:30] I can’t wait for you to hear part two of this wonderful conversation with Shauna. It’s coming soon.

[52:36] Thank you for listening to her Life, Her Practice, Her Way,

[52:40] a podcast for and about female financial advisors.

[52:45] I truly hope you found something valuable and encouraging in today’s episode.

[52:50] If you did, I’d be so grateful if you’d take a moment to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

[52:58] It helps other phenomenal women in our field find this space.

[53:02] And if you know another advisor who would benefit from these conversations or from the kind of support I offer through coaching,

[53:10] please send this episode to her.

[53:13] If you’re curious about working with me as your coach or interested in being on the podcast, I’d love to hear from you.

[53:21] You can find more details and reach out to me on the contact page of my website.

[53:27] Her Life, her practice herway.com no spaces, no underlines, just the words straight in a row.

[53:36] Until next time, keep building a life and practice you truly love.

• Shanna Due, AFC®, Founder of Due Financial – Learn more about Shanna’s work helping families navigate college planning and financial decision-making: https://www.duefinancial.com

• Book: More Than Money – A collection exploring the emotional and human sides of financial planning, co-authored by Shanna and other financial professionals.

• The Society of Advice – A community founded by Carl Richards dedicated to helping advisors serve with empathy, curiosity, and connection: https://www.thesocietyofadvice.com

• Accredited Financial Counselor (AFC®) program – The designation that launched Shanna’s journey into financial counseling and holistic planning: https://www.afcpe.org

Shanna Due
CCFC, CFP®, AFC®, ChFC®

Shanna Due is a Certified College Financial Consultant (CCFC), Certified Financial Planner™, Accredited Financial Counselor® and contributing author to More Than Money.  

​Her mission is to end the student debt crisis one family at a time. She guides families through the complex financial aid system so that parents don’t have to sacrifice their retirement, and students don’t have financial constraints on their future.  

As a fee-only financial planner she worked with families to align their capital (time, money, attention, energy) with their values and now she does the same for families working through the enormous task of getting the best college experience for the least amount of money.  She doesn’t sell any products or receive commissions; she works for your family.