[00:17] Tara Bansal: Welcome to her life, her practice, her way A podcast for and about Female Financial Advisors I’m Tara Conti Bansal and I’ve been a financial planner and life coach for over 20 years.

[00:32] I want this show to share other women financial advisors journeys, struggles and triumphs.

[00:39] I want to highlight the unique and similar ways to enjoying our life and our practice on our own terms.

[00:46] I hope to build a community of like minded, deeply caring and exceptional female advisors who want to help our clients and ourselves live a life that we love.

[00:59] One that is filled with love,

[01:01] learning, connection, meaning and joy.

[01:04] I hope you listen in.

[01:07] Hello.

[01:08] Tara Bansal: Hello, this is Tara Conti Bansal and I am here with Michelle Gass.

[01:14] She is with Paradigm Advisors down in Texas and her firm has been around since 1992 and it’s changed forms but I got to meet her at one of Carl Richards like small group retreats and just,

[01:35] I mean admired her from the first second I met her and I’m thrilled to have her here.

[01:41] So thank you for coming.

[01:42] Michelle Gass: Michelle thank you Tara. I’m so happy to be here. And yes, we hit it off almost immediately.

[01:49] Tara Bansal: Yes.

[01:51] And I, I want you to share your wisdom and tell people about what you do because it’s incredible.

[01:58] So this is the question I always start with, but tell us your story. Like how did you get where you are today?

[02:05] In about five minutes maybe. Or less.

[02:09] Michelle Gass: Yeah, I could fill a whole podcast with my,

[02:11] my ventures, but let’s give the concise version.

[02:16] I came into it. It’s, it’s really interesting because it’s sort of a culmination of everything I’ve ever done and got me to my happy place.

[02:24] I originally was in accounting and that’s where I started. I was, I thought I had it all figured out at 18 or 19 and I was going to be a tax accountant and I loved my classes and really liked the planning and the estate planning and all that kind of thing.

[02:39] Then I got to the real world and it’s like, what do you mean fill out tax returns?

[02:44] I didn’t know that’s what I was going to have to do. No, I really didn’t. I enjoyed the first three years, but I quickly,

[02:50] I realized that I liked the research and the planning a lot more than I like compliance.

[02:55] Tara Bansal: I,

[02:56] I hate tax returns and everybody’s like, but you’re a financial planner. And I’m like, not that kind.

[03:03] That’s not my favorite thing. I don’t mind looking at them but having to fill them out and do the other part is not what I want.

[03:09] Michelle Gass: Oh no, yeah, it was, it was tedious and so anyway, I got hired by my first client who was a family officer and went to their firm and then started learning about hedge funds.

[03:22] We ran a little in house firm there,

[03:25] merged with the larger one and then I thought,

[03:28] once again thought I knew more than I probably did and went off on my own in 1992 to start a hedge fund and manage a hedge fund.

[03:37] At the time my husband was self employed and we had a four year old, a one year old. Wow. We had a boy and a girl and we thought, okay, we’re never going to, we’re not going to have any more children, God willing.

[03:47] So what else am I going to do with my time? So I started a pitch but.

[03:53] And it was very fatted for 23 years. And so that’s sort of the evolution of paradigm today.

[03:59] This is, I guess you would call it my encore career, my fourth career, however you want to word it.

[04:04] But it really is a culmination of everything because I’ve got the tax and the family office investing and now doing the financial planning, which is really fun.

[04:15] Tara Bansal: When, when did things change or for you to shift from more of the hedge fund?

[04:23] Michelle Gass: Well, it evolved pretty naturally in that hedge funds. A seven year life of a hedge fund is like an eternity. And we were 23 years with a good record,

[04:33] so it was time.

[04:36] It wasn’t as much fun as it had been as the markets evolved.

[04:40] We were still making money on behalf of our investors, but we weren’t the joy wasn’t there like it used to be. And so I had it all figured out financially and I thought, well, you know, let’s just wind this down.

[04:51] We gave all the money back to the investors.

[04:54] And then because I was afraid of my brain, my atrophy, I went and started taking CFP classes for fun.

[05:00] Wow.

[05:00] So what year was this?

[05:02] That was 16, 2016.

[05:05] And quickly realized that this was my calling.

[05:09] Tara Bansal: Yes.

[05:10] Michelle Gass: And I could really build a business that I wanted to build and the business I had always looked for all those years and never could find,

[05:18] which was providing deep financial planning for people who wanted to pay for it without requiring huge assets under management to get that level of service.

[05:29] Tara Bansal: And are you still doing that?

[05:31] Michelle Gass: That is, that’s who we serve. And we sort of broke the fees into two components.

[05:36] So we have a nice financial planning concierge fee that we can afford to provide the service that, that people want and are willing to pay for even if they are still in the beginning of accumulation.

[05:50] High earners but, but generally 25 to 45 is who I really love serving.

[05:56] We’ve got older than that too, and I love them just as much. But really helping people, if you can help people early on,

[06:02] you could totally.

[06:03] Tara Bansal: Set them up for success.

[06:05] Michelle Gass: Yeah, yeah, I agree. Tell.

[06:08] Tara Bansal: I’d love to hear more about your firm. Like, how big is it? How, how are you structured? What’s your role?

[06:15] Michelle Gass: Sure.

[06:16] So I do,

[06:18] I guess I would be the lead planner,

[06:20] financial advisor, senior financial advisor, however you want to look at it.

[06:24] We’ve got associate advisor in Michigan.

[06:29] Kathleen works with us remotely,

[06:32] and she does all the heavy lifting of all the financial planning.

[06:36] And then we have. Kirk is my partner of well over 30 years, a business partner. We ran the headspace together as well. He does investments behind the scenes, C suite.

[06:47] And then Monica is our director of ops, and she’s been with us about seven years and really keeps the wheels on the bus and does everything for us, account opening and billing and it’s initial contact for the clients.

[07:02] But yeah, we run it very much as a team and people come in to be a paradigm client.

[07:08] Tara Bansal: How was it hard starting from, like, getting it going?

[07:14] Michelle Gass: It really was.

[07:15] I was,

[07:17] you know, entrepreneurs are eternal optimists. I don’t think any of us would do it if the glass wasn’t half full.

[07:23] But I really thought we’d been so successful running the hedge fund that it’d be really easy to pivot and start a whole new company.

[07:31] Different clients,

[07:32] clientele, Everything’s different.

[07:34] But it really is true. The trajectory of the first three years,

[07:38] no matter how many times you’ve done this before,

[07:41] every business has a startup and an evolution before you hit the hockey stick.

[07:48] And that’s what we found as well, which is fine, but we had the time to do it. But I did think that it would. I just turn on the light switch and,

[07:57] you know, easier. Yeah. Build it. And they will come. And they have to find you first.

[08:02] Tara Bansal: What, what do you love about what you do?

[08:08] Michelle Gass: Oh, it’s.

[08:09] Tara Bansal: You said this is your calling, so.

[08:10] Michelle Gass: It is my calling, I guess. What do I not love? I,

[08:14] I. Because I really love all of it. I think the thing that’s been so rewarding is to see the sense of relief and fulfillment that our clients get once they realize that they’ve got this and you don’t have to worry about it.

[08:31] You’re doing the right things and,

[08:34] you know, spend your time and energy doing what you love. Because so many of our clients work so hard.

[08:40] They’ve. They’ve got you Know, very demanding jobs. A lot of them have young kiddos and they have. Not that they have all the money in the world, but they have more money than time.

[08:49] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[08:50] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[08:51] Michelle Gass: It’s time that’s really their most valuable resource. So if I can free them up,

[08:56] avoiding the time and energy involved and take things off their plate, I think that’s been the most rewarding part.

[09:02] Tara Bansal: Do you do any of the investments still?

[09:06] Michelle Gass: We are primarily a dimensional shop.

[09:09] So it’s very straightforward because my tax background, I really focus on being tax centric. And after taxes, after. People talk now about after fees, which they should have been talking about for a long time,

[09:22] but really it’s after taxes, after fees that matter the most.

[09:26] And part of that I feel like.

[09:28] Tara Bansal: I haven’t heard that, but it is very true.

[09:31] Michelle Gass: Well, yeah, taxes are your biggest.

[09:34] Yeah. Biggest lever that you can pull.

[09:38] And if you can really plan your lifetime taxes out accordingly,

[09:42] then you. It’s more money in your pocket and out of Uncle Sams.

[09:46] Tara Bansal: Yeah. Do what tax planning software do you use?

[09:51] Michelle Gass: We use primarily holistaplan.

[09:55] It’s what we use now. I’ve been very happy with theirs. I did want to finish on one thing on the investing. Kirk actually handles all the. He’s our CIO now and handles all the investing we talk about as a team, but he handles all the investing side of it,

[10:10] which frees me up for true financial planning.

[10:14] Tara Bansal: Does he have any interest in the planning side or he just loves the investment side?

[10:20] Michelle Gass: He. I mean we all have an interest in all the aspects of our clients, but I think he’s. He’s. He’s more of a behind the scenes. I’m. I’m really more the extravert out there.

[10:31] I love meeting people.

[10:33] And so he.

[10:35] We’ve always. It’s a yin and yang. We’ve always been. Which is why we’ve been able to be business partners for all these years.

[10:41] Tara Bansal: Yeah, decades.

[10:42] Michelle Gass: Yeah, he does. He. We. We really are a nice balance to one another.

[10:48] Tara Bansal: When you meet with your clients, Hugh all is there.

[10:52] Michelle Gass: We almost always have two people in the meetings. So primarily it would be Kathleen and myself.

[10:58] Tara Bansal: Okay.

[10:59] Michelle Gass: There are some meetings that are one person.

[11:02] For instance, the initial meeting. Monica does the initial screening of clients before just to try to see so we don’t waste their time in ours of are they the right fit or should we refer them to someone.

[11:14] Somebody else that can better meet their needs.

[11:17] And we do refer out a lot of clients before they ever come into the door.

[11:22] How.

[11:25] Tara Bansal: What’s the definition of a Good fit for you.

[11:30] Michelle Gass: One reason I don’t do the initial screening and the first to get to know you is before they become a client and they do meet with what’s myself and Kathleen, but I love everybody and want to help everybody.

[11:40] Tara Bansal: I was going to say you would never say no to anyone.

[11:42] Michelle Gass: I would never say no. And from the client’s standpoint, it’s an expensive service for a lot of clients. And so we’re not the best use of their resources if they’ve got a simpler issue or their income level is not to the level right now that justifies paying for full deep financial planning.

[12:04] Tara Bansal: Okay, so what. How would you define your ideal client?

[12:10] Michelle Gass: Typically so by high earners, they probably as a family need to make 250 and up, maybe 300,000 and up. And that’s all in. A lot of them have complex compensation,

[12:20] some other things going on that make our services more valuable for them and then they. They want to be helped.

[12:31] That’s one thing.

[12:32] Tara Bansal: That’s a big thing.

[12:32] Michelle Gass: Yeah, yeah. They’re willing to invest the time and energy to have it done. Well on the, especially on the front end.

[12:41] Sometimes you have clients who just. And they’re hopefully not our clients, but people who, who want somebody to tell them what to do, but they may,

[12:51] they may not ever follow through on their part. And it just makes it really hard.

[12:55] And,

[12:56] and so we try to see somebody who’s really engaged and really wants to work with us.

[13:01] Also, we’re a life planning shop, so I have the kinder raise your life planning certification.

[13:09] And we.

[13:10] Tara Bansal: When did you do that?

[13:12] Michelle Gass: Probably 17.

[13:14] Tara Bansal: Okay. So right after.

[13:15] Michelle Gass: Yeah, right after.

[13:17] But we.

[13:18] Maybe it’s 18 by the time I was finished. But, but early on.

[13:21] But from the beginning, we’ve done a lot of life planning because we think that it’s the journey that’s so important.

[13:27] And sometimes people don’t. They just want somebody to tell them about their investing investments and you know, just tell me what to do on the investing side. And. And those would be the ones that aren’t the right fit, I guess.

[13:39] Tara Bansal: How, how would you describe life planning?

[13:45] Michelle Gass: I think it’s really figuring out one. One little stretch out to use is as money, time and values and really that intersection of the three.

[13:56] But it’s finding that spot where you’re.

[14:00] You’re at your highest and best use and your money and your values are doing the things that matter most to you is. And so to help them sort of navigate through that and understand that it’s about more than the money Mm.

[14:17] Tara Bansal: That’s. I feel like most of the people in Carl Richards group has that philosophy.

[14:25] Michelle Gass: Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. And that’s. Yeah. That I didn’t realize when I started in, in the, this industry of how few. It’s the way I’ve always sort of thought about things and I didn’t realize how many people don’t necessarily think about it that way.

[14:42] As far as the industry, maybe not the clients, but the industry itself.

[14:46] And, and you look back at the history of our industry and it makes sense because that’s where we evolved which good and the bad. There’s a reason that we don’t have the reputations that some of us think we deserve.

[14:58] Yes,

[15:00] that’s true in any profession.

[15:02] Tara Bansal: What are some of your values and how do they show up in how you work and live?

[15:11] Michelle Gass: I guess number one is respect for others and really trying to be non judgmental. We all have our biases, but we’re all human beings and we all have value.

[15:25] And to treat everybody the way that they deserve to be treated, I would be one thing and then I’m just very, very curious. I love people and love learning about.

[15:36] Tara Bansal: People and you love learning, period.

[15:39] Michelle Gass: I love learning, period. Yes, I do.

[15:42] So those, those play well into this industry because you can’t possibly know everything you need to know.

[15:49] And we’re constantly learning and evolving and changing and what, what are you doing.

[15:57] Tara Bansal: Now to keep learning and growing?

[16:02] Michelle Gass: I,

[16:03] I’m sort of a CFP groupie, I guess. I go to a lot of conferences. If anything, I have to limit myself just for time and energy of how many I can commit to.

[16:15] But I love going to conferences. I’m a bookaholic. I love to read and listen to podcasts and I don’t know, I feel like there’s more to learn if the longer I live, the more I realize how much more I want to know.

[16:31] Tara Bansal: How many conferences do you usually go to a year?

[16:35] Michelle Gass: I try to limit it to 4. 4 or 5, usually something like that.

[16:40] Tara Bansal: What are some of your favorites?

[16:44] Michelle Gass: Well, Carl’s things I’ve really enjoyed. That’s not really a conference, but his retreats. I’ve just gone to the second one of those.

[16:50] I love xy.

[16:51] I was an early XY members and it’s just a really good group of people.

[16:58] Future Proof has been one I’ve gone to more recently.

[17:01] The fpa DFW is a really good organization and we have a good conference.

[17:07] I’ve, I’ve been to probably all the, every conference I’ve ever known about. I’ve probably been to at least one.

[17:13] Yeah.

[17:13] Tara Bansal: That’s why I wanted to hear what you thought because you’ve been to way more than the average person, I would.

[17:19] Michelle Gass: Say, which probably, yeah, I, I do that to a fault. I have to limit myself because I am a term eternally curious and an avid learner.

[17:35] Tara Bansal: How.

[17:36] How are you designing your practice now at this time of your life to fit you and what you want,

[17:45] kind of like for your own life planning, like, how is that for you?

[17:51] Michelle Gass: Well, what I found when we closed the hedge funds and I really gave me a chance to reflect on what mattered, did matter most to me.

[17:57] And I realized I always want to be helping other people and I probably never want to quit working in some capacity.

[18:06] It was not a deep desire of mine to go live on the golf course six days a week or do something like that.

[18:14] And so really this is,

[18:17] this is fulfilling what, what I really want to do.

[18:20] I’ve built. We’ve got a great team and we’ve got some people with Kathleen and Monica that are more detail oriented so they can really dig in and do a better job on that.

[18:35] So that’s not my area of expertise. I’m more of a visionary and so I need my team to really support and do a lot of heavy lifting and they’ve stepped up remarkably well to that.

[18:50] So we’ve got it. We’re really humming.

[18:53] Our engine is humming as far as that goes.

[18:57] We will be growing as we move forward.

[19:00] I have no real vision and desires to be some huge enterprise, but we do want to help as many people as we can and so we’ll continue grow.

[19:12] Tara Bansal: I feel like a tension that is common is wanting to help as many people and still have your sanity and your time for the other things in your life.

[19:24] Michelle Gass: Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. You can, you can, you know, burn yourself out if you’re not careful. And so how do you balance that and provide enough me time? Mm.

[19:36] Tara Bansal: How do you do that?

[19:40] Michelle Gass: What?

[19:41] I’ve got sort of a self imposed curfew of 7 o’ clock that I’m.

[19:47] Which sounds silly, but my husband has always been the better chef of the two of us. And so I,

[19:53] I tried to always be out of here by seven at the latest. Sometimes I leave obviously earlier than that,

[20:00] but that’s sort of my drop dead time to leave the office exercise. And I love Pilates and I’ve got grandkids now, so that’s always keeps you young and that’s really fun.

[20:12] Tara Bansal: Are they nearby?

[20:14] Michelle Gass: They are, yeah. They’re in Dallas. Three of Them five, two and a half and one.

[20:18] So they keep me very busy. And that’s fun.

[20:23] Yeah, I just, I. I sort of get energy from other people and from being around other people.

[20:30] Tara Bansal: Mm.

[20:30] Michelle Gass: So some of what I do, people probably wouldn’t consider it recharging, especially now. It is, but for me it is. Yeah.

[20:38] Tara Bansal: That’s great. How, how are you thinking of growing your firm?

[20:45] Michelle Gass: The timing is interesting because we’re coming on the end of the year and we just had sort of a preliminary discussion of that. Our next five. We’re to the point now of looking again at our 5 and 10 year vision.

[20:55] We use a lot of eos.

[20:56] Um,

[20:57] and, and we’ve enjoyed integrating that into. To our practice.

[21:03] But we really have the systems in place and I feel like we could dial it up. We’ve never really marketed to this stage and so I feel like we could dial up our marketing a little bit and, and really hone in on who we.

[21:22] Who we serve the best and who can benefit from us the most and take on some more clients. And with that, we will need to grow both support for Monica and Kathleen, but then also on the advisor side at some point.

[21:39] And so how do you.

[21:41] That’s always another source of tension of, do you hire somebody in as a newbie and have them grow with the farmer? Do you bring someone with more experience?

[21:51] And we do so much as a team that it’s hard when you bring somebody in with their own preconceived notions of this is my book and my, you know, my clients.

[22:01] Because I think if you ask our clients, they would say, I’m a paradigm client.

[22:06] I’m not a Michelle client. I’m not a, you know, Kathleen client or whatever.

[22:09] Tara Bansal: They work as a team.

[22:10] Michelle Gass: Yeah, they do. They do. And we like that. We like that.

[22:14] Tara Bansal: I, I agree. I think that’s wonderful. What, so what form of marketing are you thinking of doing? Did you talk about that?

[22:27] Michelle Gass: We’re starting to.

[22:29] It probably won’t.

[22:30] I guess I’m not going to be out there posting every day on LinkedIn and doing all those kinds of things. We do right now our form of marketing has been one blog a month and we send that out to a newsletter type blog to our clients and then post that on LinkedIn.

[22:46] That pretty much all we’ve done to date.

[22:50] I’d love to have. And I guess I don’t know that I call it marketing. You probably marketing does happen from this, but also other ways we can serve more people who maybe aren’t clients.

[23:01] So maybe having some Seminars of.

[23:06] Or lunch and learns or something like for younger professionals who they’re not. They’re probably,

[23:12] you know, our service does not make sense to them, but we have a lot to offer in knowledge and expertise that maybe we could help them get started and. And more of a group setting,

[23:24] which we wouldn’t charge for that, but it’s a way to sort of pay it forward and give that there too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[23:31] And then for people with college,

[23:34] our kids, maybe middle school to start thinking, especially in more affluent neighborhoods. You see parents,

[23:43] I think over committing to the kids of you can go anywhere without.

[23:49] And they’re jeopardizing in some cases their financial future and how long they have to work.

[23:54] And none of us want to be boomerang parents. So to help early on in that discussion of what makes the most sense for our family and.

[24:05] Tara Bansal: Are you talking about around colleges?

[24:07] Michelle Gass: Around college? Yeah, around college. Excuse me for the. Thanks for the clarification, but yeah, around colleges because I think that they. Sometimes you see the parents start having those discussions when not our clients, hopefully, but other parents start having those discussions in their senior year.

[24:21] Okay, you got all these schools.

[24:23] This is out of the price range. Well, you,

[24:25] you really.

[24:27] For everybody and for the,

[24:29] for the happiness of the family, but also for the kids and for the parents.

[24:33] So nobody’s disappointed. Start talking about what really matters as a family and where you went to. I mean, I,

[24:41] I had a great education with a public education in public colleges. And it.

[24:47] Tara Bansal: Did you go.

[24:48] Michelle Gass: I don’t think it’s held me back at all. I grew up in Fayetteville, Arkansas through the Fayetteville school school system.

[24:56] A great education. It’s a college town. So we, we really had a lot of exposure. And then went to University of Tennessee is where I got my undergraduate and then my master’s in tax.

[25:05] Tara Bansal: Oh, and was that also from University of Tennessee?

[25:09] Michelle Gass: Yes,

[25:10] I became a.

[25:13] A teaching assistant. I was a ta and so they paid me to go to grad school. So it worked out really well.

[25:20] Very nice, very economical and very rewarding.

[25:24] Tara Bansal: What.

[25:26] Tara Bansal: What would you like to share about your family and having this as a career?

[25:32] Michelle Gass: You know,

[25:33] I think the thing that makes this so great, especially for. For women and working women, and I just, I really, really want more women in the industry because you do have some flexibility.

[25:47] And I think Covid really showed the best part of COVID for me was that I didn’t have children at home to educate. I can’t imagine.

[25:57] But I think that that showed a lot of us the importance of family. And it’s really brought it more to the forefront of people were trying so hard to balance all that.

[26:08] I mean pre Covid, but just balance family and children and everything. All the. The ways you get tugged and pulled different directions in silence and. And behind in the darkness and behind the scenes.

[26:21] And I think one thing good about after Covid is it really brought to the forefront of how important our families are and how much they matter.

[26:30] And I think this career, you can really balance that well, of having a family and having something that stimulates you and helps other people.

[26:41] Tara Bansal: I agree.

[26:42] Michelle Gass: How.

[26:43] Tara Bansal: What ideas do you have for how we can get more women into this industry?

[26:51] Michelle Gass: I think just as more people become aware of,

[26:56] you know, what’s out there, unfortunately, and I don’t know why this is, but,

[27:01] you know, the stigma of. Of some of the math and especially finance, even now when you look in finance and not that you need to be a finance major to do this, but it sort of has a people here.

[27:12] What’s got finance in the name Financial planner.

[27:16] People hear that and I think sometimes are shy away from that.

[27:21] Thinking of Wall street and all the,

[27:23] you know,

[27:24] wolves of Wall street, all the nasty parts of Wall street. And it’s so different than that.

[27:29] And. And really,

[27:32] females are really good at math and. And what makes us, I think, better is that compassion. And sometimes I sometimes think we’re better listeners not to. Not guys because there’s guys that are really good as well.

[27:47] But I think we have a natural ability to be more empathetic and also to have a lot of balls in the air. As moms, we’ve learned to do that. Yes.

[27:59] And with financial planning, you’ve always got priority. You know, you’re always trying to prioritize. There’s so many different things and some even with one client, so many things you can look at.

[28:09] But then you put that times, however many clients and. And trying to prioritize and figure out what’s the most important thing right now and what can wait.

[28:18] We’re good at that.

[28:19] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[28:20] Michelle Gass: Because.

[28:21] Tara Bansal: Because of being a mom or being. Taking care of a household.

[28:24] Michelle Gass: Yeah.

[28:26] Tara Bansal: So you think just changing the way it’s viewed and communicating with women so they understand and giving.

[28:40] Michelle Gass: Yeah, financial literacy would be great, but then also giving women confidence. I think sometimes we.

[28:49] As opposed to some of the guys, we.

[28:52] We feel like we want to know a lot about something before we say I’ve got this and I can do it.

[28:59] And I think sometimes when we’re intimidated by the lingo and which some of it’s by design by the industry over the years. But if we could just rip away that facade of,

[29:11] of intimidation and make it more approachable and make people more comfortable, males and females. But the more we can make people more comfortable with,

[29:22] um. It’s okay not to understand. I mean if I went to a brain surgeon, I would not be expected to know anything about their lingo or understand any of that.

[29:33] Um, but when you switch it to finances, it’s almost like we feel sometimes like we should know more than we know and we’re embarrassed to say it’s money. We’re just embarrassed to say that we don’t know as much as we are.

[29:50] We actually do know more than we thought we knew. But the. We don’t realize how much we know.

[29:55] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I just.

[29:58] Michelle Gass: Yeah.

[29:58] Tara Bansal: That seems to be.

[30:00] After so many interviews, that is a common. Is that so many women are intimidated by the numbers or the math.

[30:08] And,

[30:10] and to your point, like I think many women are great at that and but I also feel like almost being a psychology major would be better than a finance degree.

[30:24] Michelle Gass: So it’s not about the numbers. It really.

[30:27] And that’s what I guess is when you hear my career and you think, you know, how did you go from being a tax accountant to hedge funds to this?

[30:35] It really makes a lot of sense when you step back because it’s all about human behavior and human psychology and.

[30:42] Tara Bansal: Well,

[30:43] yeah like hearing your path, it’s like I think most people are just like, oh my goodness,

[30:49] how did she do it with the investment focus and all that. But I feel like if they meet you and like you’re just such a people person.

[31:00] Tara Bansal: Right.

[31:01] Tara Bansal: Like that you like that’s why this is your calling is because you guys want to be with people and help them.

[31:09] And that is what I feel like our business is about or should be about.

[31:13] Michelle Gass: It really is. And, and, and to your point, it really is the human behavior aspect in psychology.

[31:19] When I go back and look, I mean even attack I. That was back at the tech shelter days and I saw these people make stupid, stupid investing because they got to write off a hundred percent of their investment in the first year.

[31:31] It’s like.

[31:32] But you still lost.

[31:34] Yeah. If you’re in a 40% bracket, you still lost 60 cents on the dollar after tax. Who cares? I know but that was so appealing was to get, you know, get this big tax write off.

[31:46] Tara Bansal: And I always call that like letting the tail wag the dog like you to.

[31:54] It’s about more what, what you really want instead of just only about the numbers.

[32:00] And some of that, I feel like, is also like bragging or being able to talk about these investments are different things and tax savings.

[32:09] But to what end?

[32:10] Michelle Gass: Right. Like,

[32:12] well, and we’ve been taught that simplicity,

[32:15] you know, if it’s too simple,

[32:17] you know, complexity seems to be rewarded, and a lot of times less is more.

[32:25] Tara Bansal: And I feel like in this business. Yeah, like, it doesn’t need to be so complex.

[32:32] Michelle Gass: Not at all.

[32:32] Tara Bansal: And I feel like most people want it to be easier and simpler, and I think that’s something we can bring.

[32:42] Michelle Gass: Yeah, I don’t know where that came from, but there’s just this perception that the harder it is and the more complicated something is, the better it must be.

[32:51] Tara Bansal: Which is interesting, because I do feel like that’s one of the negatives of our business,

[32:58] is people think these complex investments or these alternatives or these different things that may not be what’s best. They’re just more complex.

[33:13] Michelle Gass: Yeah, exactly.

[33:16] Tara Bansal: What would you tell your younger self or someone just starting out that’s.

[33:22] Michelle Gass: Yeah, I think about that a lot.

[33:24] I thought I had to be so good,

[33:27] like, if I. If I didn’t have something mastered,

[33:30] then I didn’t deserve to. To move forward or. Or take the next leap.

[33:35] And so I was always trying to make myself better before I jumped into the deep end.

[33:41] And I’ve realized that we’re always going to be evolving,

[33:46] and it’s okay not to know everything, and it’s okay to go on and take the leap. That’s how we learn.

[33:54] And so I would say don’t wait till you’ve got it all figured out, because you’ll never get the side of the pool.

[34:01] Tara Bansal: But I feel like I don’t know if that comes with age, because I feel like that’s true for me, too, almost. The older I get,

[34:08] the more I’m willing to take some risks and be willing to fail. That I wouldn’t have,

[34:17] definitely in my younger days.

[34:19] Michelle Gass: Would you say? Yeah, I think we’re so worried about what people will think or how it will look if we don’t succeed. It’s been so driven in us to always be the best and succeed, succeed, succeed.

[34:31] And if we don’t try, if we don’t fail, we’ll never.

[34:35] We’ll never succeed. You know, if you don’t try, you can’t fail. If you can’t fail,

[34:40] you’ve never done anything.

[34:41] Tara Bansal: Yeah, that’s coming to that edge. I feel like. What does success look like for you these days?

[34:51] Michelle Gass: At this stage in my life, it’s really having an impact on others and knowing that I’ve made somebody’s life better.

[34:58] And it doesn’t have to be. I mean, I love helping my clients, but it can just be,

[35:02] you know, the, the guy at the grocery store, the kid at the playground, or just anything that you can do to make somebody else feel a little bit better about themselves.

[35:15] Then it’s been a good day.

[35:17] Tara Bansal: Very nice. What, what upcoming challenge do you have right now?

[35:27] Michelle Gass: I guess sort of where we started of how do you do this well and serve as many people as you can and grow the business, but not wake up someday and realize that that wasn’t the path I wanted to take.

[35:42] Tara Bansal: Just how thoughtful you’re being about it, I’m sure will help with that,

[35:47] but I’m interested because I want to see what you do.

[35:54] We’re pretty much out of time, but. What,

[35:57] what would be a favorite book, podcast or resource that you would like to,

[36:02] that you’re loving lately?

[36:04] Michelle Gass: Well, I can’t not mention Carl’s new book, your Money is Fabulous. And we’ll be giving that to everybody over the holidays,

[36:11] to all of our clients and friends.

[36:14] Anything really that Carl and Michael Kitces read or write. I’m all in on those.

[36:24] Some of the other ones would be,

[36:29] I guess out of our. Ours would be Choiceology and Hidden Brain. I wrote a couple of these down just because I, I love those.

[36:36] And then Huberman. Huberman. Huberman. I don’t know how to pronounce him. He’s a professor at, at Stanford and he has. Some of them are really, really long. But he’s had some really interesting topics that he talks about and, and people he interviews that I always like.

[36:54] Tara Bansal: And.

[36:55] Tara Bansal: Is that a podcast?

[36:56] Michelle Gass: It is. Those are all podcasts. Yeah.

[36:57] Tara Bansal: Okay.

[36:58] Michelle Gass: Yeah, I listen to a lot of podcasts and we have an office in Fayetteville as well. Fayetteville, Arkansas. So I, I spent a lot of time back and forth and, and podcasts and audiobooks are.

[37:09] Are my go to.

[37:10] Tara Bansal: Oh, nice. I was gonna say how do you find the time? But that’s how.

[37:13] Michelle Gass: That’s how.

[37:14] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[37:15] Michelle Gass: Yeah. On my, on my drives.

[37:17] Tara Bansal: What’s your go to self care ritual?

[37:22] Michelle Gass: Sleep.

[37:23] Tara Bansal: Sleep.

[37:24] Michelle Gass: Now I, I need, I need my sleep. So I just try to make sure I get enough sleep and enough outdoor exercise and an activity that’s not sitting at my desk.

[37:36] Eat well and, and maybe a glass of wine or two.

[37:40] Tara Bansal: And live well.

[37:41] Michelle Gass: Yeah. Live well. Yeah. Eat well, live well. Take care of myself.

[37:44] Tara Bansal: What’s one thing bringing you joy right now?

[37:49] Michelle Gass: Definitely my grandkids.

[37:50] Tara Bansal: Ah.

[37:51] Michelle Gass: Yeah, they’re pretty special.

[37:54] Tara Bansal: And just being curious how. How does that feel different than having your own kids?

[38:03] Michelle Gass: I guess the pressure’s off. I mean, it’s your own kids. You’re always trying to make sure you’re doing everything right and that everything’s taken care of.

[38:11] And I. And this is an age thing too. You realize just know that they’re loved and you want to, you know, obviously you want to raise awesome human beings and awesome adults, but the little stuff really doesn’t matter.

[38:28] So, yeah, you could just. You can just enjoy the moments with them.

[38:32] Tara Bansal: And what is the little stuff that you feel like doesn’t matter.

[38:38] Michelle Gass: What they’re wearing or if their face is. I mean,

[38:40] it’s to be too dirty. But,

[38:42] you know, it really.

[38:44] I used to think, oh, my gosh, you know, somebody will think I picked that outfit. It’s like, no, nobody, anybody who’s been around children know that you did not put your little boy in orange socks and a Batman top.

[38:56] It’s like,

[38:57] yeah,

[38:59] but the fact I let him out of the house, I always felt like I was supposed to, you know,

[39:03] be more, I guess,

[39:05] provide more guidance and control in that respect. And it doesn’t matter.

[39:09] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I think that’s true.

[39:12] Tara Bansal: What.

[39:15] Tara Bansal: Any advice on middle age and just enjoying it or figuring it out?

[39:26] Michelle Gass: I think the older I get, the more I like me and I’m okay with me.

[39:31] I’m a lot more accepting. I’m probably more accepting of other people and their differences as well.

[39:38] Just the human race as a whole, that’s what makes the world go round, is that we are all so different and that everything’s going to be okay. I think I got caught up more with my younger age of,

[39:51] you know, making sure that I was, you know, on the right career path or on this or that, and. And it evolves and changes over time, and we’re going to be just fine.

[40:00] Or politically, if you get all caught up in the political. Political news and everything, just back off.

[40:06] Yeah. Have faith in human,

[40:09] human, you know, human nature and human beings. Yeah. Oh, we’ll figure it out.

[40:15] Tara Bansal: That’s a great place to end. I mean, Michelle, you are so high energy and so wonderful that I.

[40:23] I’m jealous of your clients because I’m sure they’re thrilled to work with you.

[40:28] Michelle Gass: I.

[40:28] Tara Bansal: But thank you for taking this time.

[40:30] Michelle Gass: Yeah, absolutely. And thank you so much for inviting me. It’s been really fun.

[40:35] Tara Bansal: What stayed with me most from this conversation with Michelle Gass is how clearly she was made for this work.

[40:42] Her path, four different careers,

[40:45] a lifetime of learning,

[40:47] and a genuine love of people all led her to where she is right now.

[40:52] You can hear it and you you can feel it.

[40:55] Every chapter of her life has prepared her for the kind of planning she does now,

[41:00] the kind that reaches far beyond numbers and into the heart of someone’s life.

[41:06] Michelle is a beautiful reminder that great financial planning is really life planning. It’s listening, noticing,

[41:15] asking better questions, and helping people uncover and get clear on what matters most to them.

[41:22] Again and again on this podcast I see that thread.

[41:26] So many of us didn’t come into this profession for the spreadsheets.

[41:31] We came because we care about people and want them to live lives they love.

[41:37] I also loved hearing about her team.

[41:40] It’s rare to find a practice where everyone is in their lane, doing what they do best and working together seamlessly.

[41:48] Michelle has created that a firm that hums because the people inside it are aligned,

[41:55] trusted and truly collaborating.

[41:58] That’s something many of us want and aspire to, and she shows what’s possible when you build and select with intention.

[42:07] Her story is a reminder that our careers unfold in ways we can’t always predict,

[42:13] and that often,

[42:14] every step along the way,

[42:16] even the mistakes and struggles are preparing us for the work we were meant to do.

[42:22] Michelle embodies that beautifully.

[42:25] Her wisdom, her joy, and her care for her clients deeply reflect the heart of this profession.

[42:33] And to me, she’s proof of something I strongly believe.

[42:36] We each get to build a practice that fits who we are.

[42:40] We each get to serve in a way that aligns with our gifts.

[42:44] And we each get to help people build a life they love.

[42:48] Not someday, but now.

[42:51] Thank you for listening to her life, her practice, her way.

[42:56] A podcast for and about female Financial advisors.

[43:00] I truly hope you have enjoyed this podcast and got some value from it. If so, I would love to ask a favor of you.

[43:07] Please go to Apple Podcasts or Spotify and rate and review my podcast. This will help me get the word out to other amazing like minded female financial advisors.

[43:19] You can also send it to a friend or two who you think would gain something from listening to it.

[43:24] Until next time, I’m wishing you the very best.

Books Michelle Recommends

• The Psychology of Money: Timeless Lessons on Wealth, Greed and Happiness and The Art of Spending Money: Simple Choices for a Richer Life, both by Morgan Housel – https://www.morganhousel.com/

• Your Money: Reimagining Wealth in 101 Simple Sketches by Carl Richards – https://www.behaviorgap.com/

• Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit by Brené Brown – https://brenebrown.com/

 

Books that greatly influenced Michelle early on:

• Jonathan Livingston Seagull by Richard Bach

• Psycho-Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz (1st book I read on human nature and perception)

• The Fourth Turning: An American Prophecy by Neil Howe and William Strauss
• Life Planning for You: How to Design & Deliver the Life of Your Dreams by George Kinder

 

Podcasts Michelle Loves

• Choiceology with Katy Milkman – https://www.katymilkman.com/choiceology-season-16

• Hidden Brain with Shankar Vedantam– https://www.hiddenbrain.org/

• Any podcasts with Michael Kitces and/or Carl Richards

Financial Advisor Success Podcast by Michael Kitces

Michelle’s episode on The Financial Advisor Success Podcast – #FASuccess Ep 420: Making Financial Planning More Repeatable Without Losing the Customization Where Clients Prioritize What Matters Most, With Michelle Underwood Gass

Kitces and Carl – Real Talk for Real Financial Advisors

50 Fires: A Podcast Sparking Conversations About Money That Actually Matter

Michelle Underwood Gass, CPA, CFP®, is founder and principal of Paradigm Advisors, an independent fee-only financial advisory firm. Michelle has a passion for helping people and resolving complex issues for her clients while navigating their path towards financial freedom. Her diverse experiences working in different areas of finance – accounting, tax, family office environment, hedge funds and ultimately becoming an entrepreneur – make her uniquely qualified.

Michelle’s professional career started in public accounting at Arthur Andersen, where she learned firsthand the positive impact of strategic tax planning on wealth accumulation.  After transitioning into investment management and nontraditional investment strategies, she founded Paradigm and successfully managed alternative investment funds for over two decades.

Michelle has a Master of Accountancy with a concentration in Taxation and an undergraduate Accounting degree, both from the University of Tennessee. An avid supporter and advocate of women and children, Michelle is a long-time member of the Advisory Boards of Texas Wall Street Women (TXWSW) and Capital for Kids (CFK). She is active at their church and with various community organizations. Michelle and her husband have two grown children and three grandchildren.

When not helping others plan for their future, you can find Michelle enjoying time with family and friends. Favorite activities include walking, bridge, savoring good food and wine and traveling anywhere and everywhere…connecting with others along the way while exploring local cultures.

Links

website – ParadigmAdvisors.com

Connect with Michelle on LinkedIn

[00:17] Tara Bansal: Welcome to her life, her practice, her way A podcast for and about Female Financial Advisors I’m Tara Conti Bansal and I’ve been a financial planner and life coach for over 20 years.

[00:32] I want this show to share other women financial advisors journeys, struggles and triumphs.

[00:39] I want to highlight the unique and similar ways to enjoying our life and our practice on our own terms.

[00:46] I hope to build a community of like minded, deeply caring and exceptional female advisors who want to help our clients and ourselves live a life that we love.

[00:59] One that is filled with love,

[01:01] learning, connection, meaning and joy.

[01:04] I hope you listen in.

[01:07] Hello.

[01:08] Tara Bansal: Hello, this is Tara Conti Bansal and I am here with Michelle Gass.

[01:14] She is with Paradigm Advisors down in Texas and her firm has been around since 1992 and it’s changed forms but I got to meet her at one of Carl Richards like small group retreats and just,

[01:35] I mean admired her from the first second I met her and I’m thrilled to have her here.

[01:41] So thank you for coming.

[01:42] Michelle Gass: Michelle thank you Tara. I’m so happy to be here. And yes, we hit it off almost immediately.

[01:49] Tara Bansal: Yes.

[01:51] And I, I want you to share your wisdom and tell people about what you do because it’s incredible.

[01:58] So this is the question I always start with, but tell us your story. Like how did you get where you are today?

[02:05] In about five minutes maybe. Or less.

[02:09] Michelle Gass: Yeah, I could fill a whole podcast with my,

[02:11] my ventures, but let’s give the concise version.

[02:16] I came into it. It’s, it’s really interesting because it’s sort of a culmination of everything I’ve ever done and got me to my happy place.

[02:24] I originally was in accounting and that’s where I started. I was, I thought I had it all figured out at 18 or 19 and I was going to be a tax accountant and I loved my classes and really liked the planning and the estate planning and all that kind of thing.

[02:39] Then I got to the real world and it’s like, what do you mean fill out tax returns?

[02:44] I didn’t know that’s what I was going to have to do. No, I really didn’t. I enjoyed the first three years, but I quickly,

[02:50] I realized that I liked the research and the planning a lot more than I like compliance.

[02:55] Tara Bansal: I,

[02:56] I hate tax returns and everybody’s like, but you’re a financial planner. And I’m like, not that kind.

[03:03] That’s not my favorite thing. I don’t mind looking at them but having to fill them out and do the other part is not what I want.

[03:09] Michelle Gass: Oh no, yeah, it was, it was tedious and so anyway, I got hired by my first client who was a family officer and went to their firm and then started learning about hedge funds.

[03:22] We ran a little in house firm there,

[03:25] merged with the larger one and then I thought,

[03:28] once again thought I knew more than I probably did and went off on my own in 1992 to start a hedge fund and manage a hedge fund.

[03:37] At the time my husband was self employed and we had a four year old, a one year old. Wow. We had a boy and a girl and we thought, okay, we’re never going to, we’re not going to have any more children, God willing.

[03:47] So what else am I going to do with my time? So I started a pitch but.

[03:53] And it was very fatted for 23 years. And so that’s sort of the evolution of paradigm today.

[03:59] This is, I guess you would call it my encore career, my fourth career, however you want to word it.

[04:04] But it really is a culmination of everything because I’ve got the tax and the family office investing and now doing the financial planning, which is really fun.

[04:15] Tara Bansal: When, when did things change or for you to shift from more of the hedge fund?

[04:23] Michelle Gass: Well, it evolved pretty naturally in that hedge funds. A seven year life of a hedge fund is like an eternity. And we were 23 years with a good record,

[04:33] so it was time.

[04:36] It wasn’t as much fun as it had been as the markets evolved.

[04:40] We were still making money on behalf of our investors, but we weren’t the joy wasn’t there like it used to be. And so I had it all figured out financially and I thought, well, you know, let’s just wind this down.

[04:51] We gave all the money back to the investors.

[04:54] And then because I was afraid of my brain, my atrophy, I went and started taking CFP classes for fun.

[05:00] Wow.

[05:00] So what year was this?

[05:02] That was 16, 2016.

[05:05] And quickly realized that this was my calling.

[05:09] Tara Bansal: Yes.

[05:10] Michelle Gass: And I could really build a business that I wanted to build and the business I had always looked for all those years and never could find,

[05:18] which was providing deep financial planning for people who wanted to pay for it without requiring huge assets under management to get that level of service.

[05:29] Tara Bansal: And are you still doing that?

[05:31] Michelle Gass: That is, that’s who we serve. And we sort of broke the fees into two components.

[05:36] So we have a nice financial planning concierge fee that we can afford to provide the service that, that people want and are willing to pay for even if they are still in the beginning of accumulation.

[05:50] High earners but, but generally 25 to 45 is who I really love serving.

[05:56] We’ve got older than that too, and I love them just as much. But really helping people, if you can help people early on,

[06:02] you could totally.

[06:03] Tara Bansal: Set them up for success.

[06:05] Michelle Gass: Yeah, yeah, I agree. Tell.

[06:08] Tara Bansal: I’d love to hear more about your firm. Like, how big is it? How, how are you structured? What’s your role?

[06:15] Michelle Gass: Sure.

[06:16] So I do,

[06:18] I guess I would be the lead planner,

[06:20] financial advisor, senior financial advisor, however you want to look at it.

[06:24] We’ve got associate advisor in Michigan.

[06:29] Kathleen works with us remotely,

[06:32] and she does all the heavy lifting of all the financial planning.

[06:36] And then we have. Kirk is my partner of well over 30 years, a business partner. We ran the headspace together as well. He does investments behind the scenes, C suite.

[06:47] And then Monica is our director of ops, and she’s been with us about seven years and really keeps the wheels on the bus and does everything for us, account opening and billing and it’s initial contact for the clients.

[07:02] But yeah, we run it very much as a team and people come in to be a paradigm client.

[07:08] Tara Bansal: How was it hard starting from, like, getting it going?

[07:14] Michelle Gass: It really was.

[07:15] I was,

[07:17] you know, entrepreneurs are eternal optimists. I don’t think any of us would do it if the glass wasn’t half full.

[07:23] But I really thought we’d been so successful running the hedge fund that it’d be really easy to pivot and start a whole new company.

[07:31] Different clients,

[07:32] clientele, Everything’s different.

[07:34] But it really is true. The trajectory of the first three years,

[07:38] no matter how many times you’ve done this before,

[07:41] every business has a startup and an evolution before you hit the hockey stick.

[07:48] And that’s what we found as well, which is fine, but we had the time to do it. But I did think that it would. I just turn on the light switch and,

[07:57] you know, easier. Yeah. Build it. And they will come. And they have to find you first.

[08:02] Tara Bansal: What, what do you love about what you do?

[08:08] Michelle Gass: Oh, it’s.

[08:09] Tara Bansal: You said this is your calling, so.

[08:10] Michelle Gass: It is my calling, I guess. What do I not love? I,

[08:14] I. Because I really love all of it. I think the thing that’s been so rewarding is to see the sense of relief and fulfillment that our clients get once they realize that they’ve got this and you don’t have to worry about it.

[08:31] You’re doing the right things and,

[08:34] you know, spend your time and energy doing what you love. Because so many of our clients work so hard.

[08:40] They’ve. They’ve got you Know, very demanding jobs. A lot of them have young kiddos and they have. Not that they have all the money in the world, but they have more money than time.

[08:49] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[08:50] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[08:51] Michelle Gass: It’s time that’s really their most valuable resource. So if I can free them up,

[08:56] avoiding the time and energy involved and take things off their plate, I think that’s been the most rewarding part.

[09:02] Tara Bansal: Do you do any of the investments still?

[09:06] Michelle Gass: We are primarily a dimensional shop.

[09:09] So it’s very straightforward because my tax background, I really focus on being tax centric. And after taxes, after. People talk now about after fees, which they should have been talking about for a long time,

[09:22] but really it’s after taxes, after fees that matter the most.

[09:26] And part of that I feel like.

[09:28] Tara Bansal: I haven’t heard that, but it is very true.

[09:31] Michelle Gass: Well, yeah, taxes are your biggest.

[09:34] Yeah. Biggest lever that you can pull.

[09:38] And if you can really plan your lifetime taxes out accordingly,

[09:42] then you. It’s more money in your pocket and out of Uncle Sams.

[09:46] Tara Bansal: Yeah. Do what tax planning software do you use?

[09:51] Michelle Gass: We use primarily holistaplan.

[09:55] It’s what we use now. I’ve been very happy with theirs. I did want to finish on one thing on the investing. Kirk actually handles all the. He’s our CIO now and handles all the investing we talk about as a team, but he handles all the investing side of it,

[10:10] which frees me up for true financial planning.

[10:14] Tara Bansal: Does he have any interest in the planning side or he just loves the investment side?

[10:20] Michelle Gass: He. I mean we all have an interest in all the aspects of our clients, but I think he’s. He’s. He’s more of a behind the scenes. I’m. I’m really more the extravert out there.

[10:31] I love meeting people.

[10:33] And so he.

[10:35] We’ve always. It’s a yin and yang. We’ve always been. Which is why we’ve been able to be business partners for all these years.

[10:41] Tara Bansal: Yeah, decades.

[10:42] Michelle Gass: Yeah, he does. He. We. We really are a nice balance to one another.

[10:48] Tara Bansal: When you meet with your clients, Hugh all is there.

[10:52] Michelle Gass: We almost always have two people in the meetings. So primarily it would be Kathleen and myself.

[10:58] Tara Bansal: Okay.

[10:59] Michelle Gass: There are some meetings that are one person.

[11:02] For instance, the initial meeting. Monica does the initial screening of clients before just to try to see so we don’t waste their time in ours of are they the right fit or should we refer them to someone.

[11:14] Somebody else that can better meet their needs.

[11:17] And we do refer out a lot of clients before they ever come into the door.

[11:22] How.

[11:25] Tara Bansal: What’s the definition of a Good fit for you.

[11:30] Michelle Gass: One reason I don’t do the initial screening and the first to get to know you is before they become a client and they do meet with what’s myself and Kathleen, but I love everybody and want to help everybody.

[11:40] Tara Bansal: I was going to say you would never say no to anyone.

[11:42] Michelle Gass: I would never say no. And from the client’s standpoint, it’s an expensive service for a lot of clients. And so we’re not the best use of their resources if they’ve got a simpler issue or their income level is not to the level right now that justifies paying for full deep financial planning.

[12:04] Tara Bansal: Okay, so what. How would you define your ideal client?

[12:10] Michelle Gass: Typically so by high earners, they probably as a family need to make 250 and up, maybe 300,000 and up. And that’s all in. A lot of them have complex compensation,

[12:20] some other things going on that make our services more valuable for them and then they. They want to be helped.

[12:31] That’s one thing.

[12:32] Tara Bansal: That’s a big thing.

[12:32] Michelle Gass: Yeah, yeah. They’re willing to invest the time and energy to have it done. Well on the, especially on the front end.

[12:41] Sometimes you have clients who just. And they’re hopefully not our clients, but people who, who want somebody to tell them what to do, but they may,

[12:51] they may not ever follow through on their part. And it just makes it really hard.

[12:55] And,

[12:56] and so we try to see somebody who’s really engaged and really wants to work with us.

[13:01] Also, we’re a life planning shop, so I have the kinder raise your life planning certification.

[13:09] And we.

[13:10] Tara Bansal: When did you do that?

[13:12] Michelle Gass: Probably 17.

[13:14] Tara Bansal: Okay. So right after.

[13:15] Michelle Gass: Yeah, right after.

[13:17] But we.

[13:18] Maybe it’s 18 by the time I was finished. But, but early on.

[13:21] But from the beginning, we’ve done a lot of life planning because we think that it’s the journey that’s so important.

[13:27] And sometimes people don’t. They just want somebody to tell them about their investing investments and you know, just tell me what to do on the investing side. And. And those would be the ones that aren’t the right fit, I guess.

[13:39] Tara Bansal: How, how would you describe life planning?

[13:45] Michelle Gass: I think it’s really figuring out one. One little stretch out to use is as money, time and values and really that intersection of the three.

[13:56] But it’s finding that spot where you’re.

[14:00] You’re at your highest and best use and your money and your values are doing the things that matter most to you is. And so to help them sort of navigate through that and understand that it’s about more than the money Mm.

[14:17] Tara Bansal: That’s. I feel like most of the people in Carl Richards group has that philosophy.

[14:25] Michelle Gass: Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. And that’s. Yeah. That I didn’t realize when I started in, in the, this industry of how few. It’s the way I’ve always sort of thought about things and I didn’t realize how many people don’t necessarily think about it that way.

[14:42] As far as the industry, maybe not the clients, but the industry itself.

[14:46] And, and you look back at the history of our industry and it makes sense because that’s where we evolved which good and the bad. There’s a reason that we don’t have the reputations that some of us think we deserve.

[14:58] Yes,

[15:00] that’s true in any profession.

[15:02] Tara Bansal: What are some of your values and how do they show up in how you work and live?

[15:11] Michelle Gass: I guess number one is respect for others and really trying to be non judgmental. We all have our biases, but we’re all human beings and we all have value.

[15:25] And to treat everybody the way that they deserve to be treated, I would be one thing and then I’m just very, very curious. I love people and love learning about.

[15:36] Tara Bansal: People and you love learning, period.

[15:39] Michelle Gass: I love learning, period. Yes, I do.

[15:42] So those, those play well into this industry because you can’t possibly know everything you need to know.

[15:49] And we’re constantly learning and evolving and changing and what, what are you doing.

[15:57] Tara Bansal: Now to keep learning and growing?

[16:02] Michelle Gass: I,

[16:03] I’m sort of a CFP groupie, I guess. I go to a lot of conferences. If anything, I have to limit myself just for time and energy of how many I can commit to.

[16:15] But I love going to conferences. I’m a bookaholic. I love to read and listen to podcasts and I don’t know, I feel like there’s more to learn if the longer I live, the more I realize how much more I want to know.

[16:31] Tara Bansal: How many conferences do you usually go to a year?

[16:35] Michelle Gass: I try to limit it to 4. 4 or 5, usually something like that.

[16:40] Tara Bansal: What are some of your favorites?

[16:44] Michelle Gass: Well, Carl’s things I’ve really enjoyed. That’s not really a conference, but his retreats. I’ve just gone to the second one of those.

[16:50] I love xy.

[16:51] I was an early XY members and it’s just a really good group of people.

[16:58] Future Proof has been one I’ve gone to more recently.

[17:01] The fpa DFW is a really good organization and we have a good conference.

[17:07] I’ve, I’ve been to probably all the, every conference I’ve ever known about. I’ve probably been to at least one.

[17:13] Yeah.

[17:13] Tara Bansal: That’s why I wanted to hear what you thought because you’ve been to way more than the average person, I would.

[17:19] Michelle Gass: Say, which probably, yeah, I, I do that to a fault. I have to limit myself because I am a term eternally curious and an avid learner.

[17:35] Tara Bansal: How.

[17:36] How are you designing your practice now at this time of your life to fit you and what you want,

[17:45] kind of like for your own life planning, like, how is that for you?

[17:51] Michelle Gass: Well, what I found when we closed the hedge funds and I really gave me a chance to reflect on what mattered, did matter most to me.

[17:57] And I realized I always want to be helping other people and I probably never want to quit working in some capacity.

[18:06] It was not a deep desire of mine to go live on the golf course six days a week or do something like that.

[18:14] And so really this is,

[18:17] this is fulfilling what, what I really want to do.

[18:20] I’ve built. We’ve got a great team and we’ve got some people with Kathleen and Monica that are more detail oriented so they can really dig in and do a better job on that.

[18:35] So that’s not my area of expertise. I’m more of a visionary and so I need my team to really support and do a lot of heavy lifting and they’ve stepped up remarkably well to that.

[18:50] So we’ve got it. We’re really humming.

[18:53] Our engine is humming as far as that goes.

[18:57] We will be growing as we move forward.

[19:00] I have no real vision and desires to be some huge enterprise, but we do want to help as many people as we can and so we’ll continue grow.

[19:12] Tara Bansal: I feel like a tension that is common is wanting to help as many people and still have your sanity and your time for the other things in your life.

[19:24] Michelle Gass: Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. You can, you can, you know, burn yourself out if you’re not careful. And so how do you balance that and provide enough me time? Mm.

[19:36] Tara Bansal: How do you do that?

[19:40] Michelle Gass: What?

[19:41] I’ve got sort of a self imposed curfew of 7 o’ clock that I’m.

[19:47] Which sounds silly, but my husband has always been the better chef of the two of us. And so I,

[19:53] I tried to always be out of here by seven at the latest. Sometimes I leave obviously earlier than that,

[20:00] but that’s sort of my drop dead time to leave the office exercise. And I love Pilates and I’ve got grandkids now, so that’s always keeps you young and that’s really fun.

[20:12] Tara Bansal: Are they nearby?

[20:14] Michelle Gass: They are, yeah. They’re in Dallas. Three of Them five, two and a half and one.

[20:18] So they keep me very busy. And that’s fun.

[20:23] Yeah, I just, I. I sort of get energy from other people and from being around other people.

[20:30] Tara Bansal: Mm.

[20:30] Michelle Gass: So some of what I do, people probably wouldn’t consider it recharging, especially now. It is, but for me it is. Yeah.

[20:38] Tara Bansal: That’s great. How, how are you thinking of growing your firm?

[20:45] Michelle Gass: The timing is interesting because we’re coming on the end of the year and we just had sort of a preliminary discussion of that. Our next five. We’re to the point now of looking again at our 5 and 10 year vision.

[20:55] We use a lot of eos.

[20:56] Um,

[20:57] and, and we’ve enjoyed integrating that into. To our practice.

[21:03] But we really have the systems in place and I feel like we could dial it up. We’ve never really marketed to this stage and so I feel like we could dial up our marketing a little bit and, and really hone in on who we.

[21:22] Who we serve the best and who can benefit from us the most and take on some more clients. And with that, we will need to grow both support for Monica and Kathleen, but then also on the advisor side at some point.

[21:39] And so how do you.

[21:41] That’s always another source of tension of, do you hire somebody in as a newbie and have them grow with the farmer? Do you bring someone with more experience?

[21:51] And we do so much as a team that it’s hard when you bring somebody in with their own preconceived notions of this is my book and my, you know, my clients.

[22:01] Because I think if you ask our clients, they would say, I’m a paradigm client.

[22:06] I’m not a Michelle client. I’m not a, you know, Kathleen client or whatever.

[22:09] Tara Bansal: They work as a team.

[22:10] Michelle Gass: Yeah, they do. They do. And we like that. We like that.

[22:14] Tara Bansal: I, I agree. I think that’s wonderful. What, so what form of marketing are you thinking of doing? Did you talk about that?

[22:27] Michelle Gass: We’re starting to.

[22:29] It probably won’t.

[22:30] I guess I’m not going to be out there posting every day on LinkedIn and doing all those kinds of things. We do right now our form of marketing has been one blog a month and we send that out to a newsletter type blog to our clients and then post that on LinkedIn.

[22:46] That pretty much all we’ve done to date.

[22:50] I’d love to have. And I guess I don’t know that I call it marketing. You probably marketing does happen from this, but also other ways we can serve more people who maybe aren’t clients.

[23:01] So maybe having some Seminars of.

[23:06] Or lunch and learns or something like for younger professionals who they’re not. They’re probably,

[23:12] you know, our service does not make sense to them, but we have a lot to offer in knowledge and expertise that maybe we could help them get started and. And more of a group setting,

[23:24] which we wouldn’t charge for that, but it’s a way to sort of pay it forward and give that there too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[23:31] And then for people with college,

[23:34] our kids, maybe middle school to start thinking, especially in more affluent neighborhoods. You see parents,

[23:43] I think over committing to the kids of you can go anywhere without.

[23:49] And they’re jeopardizing in some cases their financial future and how long they have to work.

[23:54] And none of us want to be boomerang parents. So to help early on in that discussion of what makes the most sense for our family and.

[24:05] Tara Bansal: Are you talking about around colleges?

[24:07] Michelle Gass: Around college? Yeah, around college. Excuse me for the. Thanks for the clarification, but yeah, around colleges because I think that they. Sometimes you see the parents start having those discussions when not our clients, hopefully, but other parents start having those discussions in their senior year.

[24:21] Okay, you got all these schools.

[24:23] This is out of the price range. Well, you,

[24:25] you really.

[24:27] For everybody and for the,

[24:29] for the happiness of the family, but also for the kids and for the parents.

[24:33] So nobody’s disappointed. Start talking about what really matters as a family and where you went to. I mean, I,

[24:41] I had a great education with a public education in public colleges. And it.

[24:47] Tara Bansal: Did you go.

[24:48] Michelle Gass: I don’t think it’s held me back at all. I grew up in Fayetteville, Arkansas through the Fayetteville school school system.

[24:56] A great education. It’s a college town. So we, we really had a lot of exposure. And then went to University of Tennessee is where I got my undergraduate and then my master’s in tax.

[25:05] Tara Bansal: Oh, and was that also from University of Tennessee?

[25:09] Michelle Gass: Yes,

[25:10] I became a.

[25:13] A teaching assistant. I was a ta and so they paid me to go to grad school. So it worked out really well.

[25:20] Very nice, very economical and very rewarding.

[25:24] Tara Bansal: What.

[25:26] Tara Bansal: What would you like to share about your family and having this as a career?

[25:32] Michelle Gass: You know,

[25:33] I think the thing that makes this so great, especially for. For women and working women, and I just, I really, really want more women in the industry because you do have some flexibility.

[25:47] And I think Covid really showed the best part of COVID for me was that I didn’t have children at home to educate. I can’t imagine.

[25:57] But I think that that showed a lot of us the importance of family. And it’s really brought it more to the forefront of people were trying so hard to balance all that.

[26:08] I mean pre Covid, but just balance family and children and everything. All the. The ways you get tugged and pulled different directions in silence and. And behind in the darkness and behind the scenes.

[26:21] And I think one thing good about after Covid is it really brought to the forefront of how important our families are and how much they matter.

[26:30] And I think this career, you can really balance that well, of having a family and having something that stimulates you and helps other people.

[26:41] Tara Bansal: I agree.

[26:42] Michelle Gass: How.

[26:43] Tara Bansal: What ideas do you have for how we can get more women into this industry?

[26:51] Michelle Gass: I think just as more people become aware of,

[26:56] you know, what’s out there, unfortunately, and I don’t know why this is, but,

[27:01] you know, the stigma of. Of some of the math and especially finance, even now when you look in finance and not that you need to be a finance major to do this, but it sort of has a people here.

[27:12] What’s got finance in the name Financial planner.

[27:16] People hear that and I think sometimes are shy away from that.

[27:21] Thinking of Wall street and all the,

[27:23] you know,

[27:24] wolves of Wall street, all the nasty parts of Wall street. And it’s so different than that.

[27:29] And. And really,

[27:32] females are really good at math and. And what makes us, I think, better is that compassion. And sometimes I sometimes think we’re better listeners not to. Not guys because there’s guys that are really good as well.

[27:47] But I think we have a natural ability to be more empathetic and also to have a lot of balls in the air. As moms, we’ve learned to do that. Yes.

[27:59] And with financial planning, you’ve always got priority. You know, you’re always trying to prioritize. There’s so many different things and some even with one client, so many things you can look at.

[28:09] But then you put that times, however many clients and. And trying to prioritize and figure out what’s the most important thing right now and what can wait.

[28:18] We’re good at that.

[28:19] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[28:20] Michelle Gass: Because.

[28:21] Tara Bansal: Because of being a mom or being. Taking care of a household.

[28:24] Michelle Gass: Yeah.

[28:26] Tara Bansal: So you think just changing the way it’s viewed and communicating with women so they understand and giving.

[28:40] Michelle Gass: Yeah, financial literacy would be great, but then also giving women confidence. I think sometimes we.

[28:49] As opposed to some of the guys, we.

[28:52] We feel like we want to know a lot about something before we say I’ve got this and I can do it.

[28:59] And I think sometimes when we’re intimidated by the lingo and which some of it’s by design by the industry over the years. But if we could just rip away that facade of,

[29:11] of intimidation and make it more approachable and make people more comfortable, males and females. But the more we can make people more comfortable with,

[29:22] um. It’s okay not to understand. I mean if I went to a brain surgeon, I would not be expected to know anything about their lingo or understand any of that.

[29:33] Um, but when you switch it to finances, it’s almost like we feel sometimes like we should know more than we know and we’re embarrassed to say it’s money. We’re just embarrassed to say that we don’t know as much as we are.

[29:50] We actually do know more than we thought we knew. But the. We don’t realize how much we know.

[29:55] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I just.

[29:58] Michelle Gass: Yeah.

[29:58] Tara Bansal: That seems to be.

[30:00] After so many interviews, that is a common. Is that so many women are intimidated by the numbers or the math.

[30:08] And,

[30:10] and to your point, like I think many women are great at that and but I also feel like almost being a psychology major would be better than a finance degree.

[30:24] Michelle Gass: So it’s not about the numbers. It really.

[30:27] And that’s what I guess is when you hear my career and you think, you know, how did you go from being a tax accountant to hedge funds to this?

[30:35] It really makes a lot of sense when you step back because it’s all about human behavior and human psychology and.

[30:42] Tara Bansal: Well,

[30:43] yeah like hearing your path, it’s like I think most people are just like, oh my goodness,

[30:49] how did she do it with the investment focus and all that. But I feel like if they meet you and like you’re just such a people person.

[31:00] Tara Bansal: Right.

[31:01] Tara Bansal: Like that you like that’s why this is your calling is because you guys want to be with people and help them.

[31:09] And that is what I feel like our business is about or should be about.

[31:13] Michelle Gass: It really is. And, and, and to your point, it really is the human behavior aspect in psychology.

[31:19] When I go back and look, I mean even attack I. That was back at the tech shelter days and I saw these people make stupid, stupid investing because they got to write off a hundred percent of their investment in the first year.

[31:31] It’s like.

[31:32] But you still lost.

[31:34] Yeah. If you’re in a 40% bracket, you still lost 60 cents on the dollar after tax. Who cares? I know but that was so appealing was to get, you know, get this big tax write off.

[31:46] Tara Bansal: And I always call that like letting the tail wag the dog like you to.

[31:54] It’s about more what, what you really want instead of just only about the numbers.

[32:00] And some of that, I feel like, is also like bragging or being able to talk about these investments are different things and tax savings.

[32:09] But to what end?

[32:10] Michelle Gass: Right. Like,

[32:12] well, and we’ve been taught that simplicity,

[32:15] you know, if it’s too simple,

[32:17] you know, complexity seems to be rewarded, and a lot of times less is more.

[32:25] Tara Bansal: And I feel like in this business. Yeah, like, it doesn’t need to be so complex.

[32:32] Michelle Gass: Not at all.

[32:32] Tara Bansal: And I feel like most people want it to be easier and simpler, and I think that’s something we can bring.

[32:42] Michelle Gass: Yeah, I don’t know where that came from, but there’s just this perception that the harder it is and the more complicated something is, the better it must be.

[32:51] Tara Bansal: Which is interesting, because I do feel like that’s one of the negatives of our business,

[32:58] is people think these complex investments or these alternatives or these different things that may not be what’s best. They’re just more complex.

[33:13] Michelle Gass: Yeah, exactly.

[33:16] Tara Bansal: What would you tell your younger self or someone just starting out that’s.

[33:22] Michelle Gass: Yeah, I think about that a lot.

[33:24] I thought I had to be so good,

[33:27] like, if I. If I didn’t have something mastered,

[33:30] then I didn’t deserve to. To move forward or. Or take the next leap.

[33:35] And so I was always trying to make myself better before I jumped into the deep end.

[33:41] And I’ve realized that we’re always going to be evolving,

[33:46] and it’s okay not to know everything, and it’s okay to go on and take the leap. That’s how we learn.

[33:54] And so I would say don’t wait till you’ve got it all figured out, because you’ll never get the side of the pool.

[34:01] Tara Bansal: But I feel like I don’t know if that comes with age, because I feel like that’s true for me, too, almost. The older I get,

[34:08] the more I’m willing to take some risks and be willing to fail. That I wouldn’t have,

[34:17] definitely in my younger days.

[34:19] Michelle Gass: Would you say? Yeah, I think we’re so worried about what people will think or how it will look if we don’t succeed. It’s been so driven in us to always be the best and succeed, succeed, succeed.

[34:31] And if we don’t try, if we don’t fail, we’ll never.

[34:35] We’ll never succeed. You know, if you don’t try, you can’t fail. If you can’t fail,

[34:40] you’ve never done anything.

[34:41] Tara Bansal: Yeah, that’s coming to that edge. I feel like. What does success look like for you these days?

[34:51] Michelle Gass: At this stage in my life, it’s really having an impact on others and knowing that I’ve made somebody’s life better.

[34:58] And it doesn’t have to be. I mean, I love helping my clients, but it can just be,

[35:02] you know, the, the guy at the grocery store, the kid at the playground, or just anything that you can do to make somebody else feel a little bit better about themselves.

[35:15] Then it’s been a good day.

[35:17] Tara Bansal: Very nice. What, what upcoming challenge do you have right now?

[35:27] Michelle Gass: I guess sort of where we started of how do you do this well and serve as many people as you can and grow the business, but not wake up someday and realize that that wasn’t the path I wanted to take.

[35:42] Tara Bansal: Just how thoughtful you’re being about it, I’m sure will help with that,

[35:47] but I’m interested because I want to see what you do.

[35:54] We’re pretty much out of time, but. What,

[35:57] what would be a favorite book, podcast or resource that you would like to,

[36:02] that you’re loving lately?

[36:04] Michelle Gass: Well, I can’t not mention Carl’s new book, your Money is Fabulous. And we’ll be giving that to everybody over the holidays,

[36:11] to all of our clients and friends.

[36:14] Anything really that Carl and Michael Kitces read or write. I’m all in on those.

[36:24] Some of the other ones would be,

[36:29] I guess out of our. Ours would be Choiceology and Hidden Brain. I wrote a couple of these down just because I, I love those.

[36:36] And then Huberman. Huberman. Huberman. I don’t know how to pronounce him. He’s a professor at, at Stanford and he has. Some of them are really, really long. But he’s had some really interesting topics that he talks about and, and people he interviews that I always like.

[36:54] Tara Bansal: And.

[36:55] Tara Bansal: Is that a podcast?

[36:56] Michelle Gass: It is. Those are all podcasts. Yeah.

[36:57] Tara Bansal: Okay.

[36:58] Michelle Gass: Yeah, I listen to a lot of podcasts and we have an office in Fayetteville as well. Fayetteville, Arkansas. So I, I spent a lot of time back and forth and, and podcasts and audiobooks are.

[37:09] Are my go to.

[37:10] Tara Bansal: Oh, nice. I was gonna say how do you find the time? But that’s how.

[37:13] Michelle Gass: That’s how.

[37:14] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[37:15] Michelle Gass: Yeah. On my, on my drives.

[37:17] Tara Bansal: What’s your go to self care ritual?

[37:22] Michelle Gass: Sleep.

[37:23] Tara Bansal: Sleep.

[37:24] Michelle Gass: Now I, I need, I need my sleep. So I just try to make sure I get enough sleep and enough outdoor exercise and an activity that’s not sitting at my desk.

[37:36] Eat well and, and maybe a glass of wine or two.

[37:40] Tara Bansal: And live well.

[37:41] Michelle Gass: Yeah. Live well. Yeah. Eat well, live well. Take care of myself.

[37:44] Tara Bansal: What’s one thing bringing you joy right now?

[37:49] Michelle Gass: Definitely my grandkids.

[37:50] Tara Bansal: Ah.

[37:51] Michelle Gass: Yeah, they’re pretty special.

[37:54] Tara Bansal: And just being curious how. How does that feel different than having your own kids?

[38:03] Michelle Gass: I guess the pressure’s off. I mean, it’s your own kids. You’re always trying to make sure you’re doing everything right and that everything’s taken care of.

[38:11] And I. And this is an age thing too. You realize just know that they’re loved and you want to, you know, obviously you want to raise awesome human beings and awesome adults, but the little stuff really doesn’t matter.

[38:28] So, yeah, you could just. You can just enjoy the moments with them.

[38:32] Tara Bansal: And what is the little stuff that you feel like doesn’t matter.

[38:38] Michelle Gass: What they’re wearing or if their face is. I mean,

[38:40] it’s to be too dirty. But,

[38:42] you know, it really.

[38:44] I used to think, oh, my gosh, you know, somebody will think I picked that outfit. It’s like, no, nobody, anybody who’s been around children know that you did not put your little boy in orange socks and a Batman top.

[38:56] It’s like,

[38:57] yeah,

[38:59] but the fact I let him out of the house, I always felt like I was supposed to, you know,

[39:03] be more, I guess,

[39:05] provide more guidance and control in that respect. And it doesn’t matter.

[39:09] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I think that’s true.

[39:12] Tara Bansal: What.

[39:15] Tara Bansal: Any advice on middle age and just enjoying it or figuring it out?

[39:26] Michelle Gass: I think the older I get, the more I like me and I’m okay with me.

[39:31] I’m a lot more accepting. I’m probably more accepting of other people and their differences as well.

[39:38] Just the human race as a whole, that’s what makes the world go round, is that we are all so different and that everything’s going to be okay. I think I got caught up more with my younger age of,

[39:51] you know, making sure that I was, you know, on the right career path or on this or that, and. And it evolves and changes over time, and we’re going to be just fine.

[40:00] Or politically, if you get all caught up in the political. Political news and everything, just back off.

[40:06] Yeah. Have faith in human,

[40:09] human, you know, human nature and human beings. Yeah. Oh, we’ll figure it out.

[40:15] Tara Bansal: That’s a great place to end. I mean, Michelle, you are so high energy and so wonderful that I.

[40:23] I’m jealous of your clients because I’m sure they’re thrilled to work with you.

[40:28] Michelle Gass: I.

[40:28] Tara Bansal: But thank you for taking this time.

[40:30] Michelle Gass: Yeah, absolutely. And thank you so much for inviting me. It’s been really fun.

[40:35] Tara Bansal: What stayed with me most from this conversation with Michelle Gass is how clearly she was made for this work.

[40:42] Her path, four different careers,

[40:45] a lifetime of learning,

[40:47] and a genuine love of people all led her to where she is right now.

[40:52] You can hear it and you you can feel it.

[40:55] Every chapter of her life has prepared her for the kind of planning she does now,

[41:00] the kind that reaches far beyond numbers and into the heart of someone’s life.

[41:06] Michelle is a beautiful reminder that great financial planning is really life planning. It’s listening, noticing,

[41:15] asking better questions, and helping people uncover and get clear on what matters most to them.

[41:22] Again and again on this podcast I see that thread.

[41:26] So many of us didn’t come into this profession for the spreadsheets.

[41:31] We came because we care about people and want them to live lives they love.

[41:37] I also loved hearing about her team.

[41:40] It’s rare to find a practice where everyone is in their lane, doing what they do best and working together seamlessly.

[41:48] Michelle has created that a firm that hums because the people inside it are aligned,

[41:55] trusted and truly collaborating.

[41:58] That’s something many of us want and aspire to, and she shows what’s possible when you build and select with intention.

[42:07] Her story is a reminder that our careers unfold in ways we can’t always predict,

[42:13] and that often,

[42:14] every step along the way,

[42:16] even the mistakes and struggles are preparing us for the work we were meant to do.

[42:22] Michelle embodies that beautifully.

[42:25] Her wisdom, her joy, and her care for her clients deeply reflect the heart of this profession.

[42:33] And to me, she’s proof of something I strongly believe.

[42:36] We each get to build a practice that fits who we are.

[42:40] We each get to serve in a way that aligns with our gifts.

[42:44] And we each get to help people build a life they love.

[42:48] Not someday, but now.

[42:51] Thank you for listening to her life, her practice, her way.

[42:56] A podcast for and about female Financial advisors.

[43:00] I truly hope you have enjoyed this podcast and got some value from it. If so, I would love to ask a favor of you.

[43:07] Please go to Apple Podcasts or Spotify and rate and review my podcast. This will help me get the word out to other amazing like minded female financial advisors.

[43:19] You can also send it to a friend or two who you think would gain something from listening to it.

[43:24] Until next time, I’m wishing you the very best.

Books Michelle Recommends

• The Psychology of Money: Timeless Lessons on Wealth, Greed and Happiness and The Art of Spending Money: Simple Choices for a Richer Life, both by Morgan Housel – https://www.morganhousel.com/

• Your Money: Reimagining Wealth in 101 Simple Sketches by Carl Richards – https://www.behaviorgap.com/

• Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit by Brené Brown – https://brenebrown.com/

 

Books that greatly influenced Michelle early on:

• Jonathan Livingston Seagull by Richard Bach

• Psycho-Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz (1st book I read on human nature and perception)

• The Fourth Turning: An American Prophecy by Neil Howe and William Strauss
• Life Planning for You: How to Design & Deliver the Life of Your Dreams by George Kinder

 

Podcasts Michelle Loves

• Choiceology with Katy Milkman – https://www.katymilkman.com/choiceology-season-16

• Hidden Brain with Shankar Vedantam– https://www.hiddenbrain.org/

• Any podcasts with Michael Kitces and/or Carl Richards

Financial Advisor Success Podcast by Michael Kitces

Michelle’s episode on The Financial Advisor Success Podcast – #FASuccess Ep 420: Making Financial Planning More Repeatable Without Losing the Customization Where Clients Prioritize What Matters Most, With Michelle Underwood Gass

Kitces and Carl – Real Talk for Real Financial Advisors

50 Fires: A Podcast Sparking Conversations About Money That Actually Matter

Michelle Underwood Gass, CPA, CFP®, is founder and principal of Paradigm Advisors, an independent fee-only financial advisory firm. Michelle has a passion for helping people and resolving complex issues for her clients while navigating their path towards financial freedom. Her diverse experiences working in different areas of finance – accounting, tax, family office environment, hedge funds and ultimately becoming an entrepreneur – make her uniquely qualified.

Michelle’s professional career started in public accounting at Arthur Andersen, where she learned firsthand the positive impact of strategic tax planning on wealth accumulation.  After transitioning into investment management and nontraditional investment strategies, she founded Paradigm and successfully managed alternative investment funds for over two decades.

Michelle has a Master of Accountancy with a concentration in Taxation and an undergraduate Accounting degree, both from the University of Tennessee. An avid supporter and advocate of women and children, Michelle is a long-time member of the Advisory Boards of Texas Wall Street Women (TXWSW) and Capital for Kids (CFK). She is active at their church and with various community organizations. Michelle and her husband have two grown children and three grandchildren.

When not helping others plan for their future, you can find Michelle enjoying time with family and friends. Favorite activities include walking, bridge, savoring good food and wine and traveling anywhere and everywhere…connecting with others along the way while exploring local cultures.

Links

website – ParadigmAdvisors.com

Connect with Michelle on LinkedIn