[00:17] Tara Bansal: Welcome to Her Life, Her Practice, Her Way.

[00:21] A podcast for and about female financial advisors. Tara I’m Tara Conti Bansal. I’ve been a financial planner and life coach for over 20 years.

[00:32] And I believe that when women thrive in this profession, we all win.

[00:38] This show is about sharing our journeys, our struggles, our breakthroughs, and the many ways we build a life and practice that feels true to us.

[00:48] And now I’m extending that mission. Beyond the podcast,

[00:52] I coach female advisors who want to grow a fulfilling practice and a beautiful life that they love.

[01:00] One filled with meaning, freedom, connection, and joy.

[01:04] Whether you’re just starting out, reinventing yourself, or dreaming of what’s next, you’re in the right place.

[01:11] Let’s build this together.

[01:14] Welcome, this is Tara Conti Bansal, and I am beyond thrilled to have Carl Richards here with me on our podcast, Her Life, Her Practice, Her Way.

[01:27] I have to, I’m, I am definitely a fan girl. I first read your one page financial plan way back when, when it came out and loved that book. And that started my admiration for you, Carl.

[01:42] And then,

[01:43] I mean, I,

[01:45] I heard you speak at Steph Bogan’s Limitless and that made a huge impression on me of that you had a financial advisor and that gave me permission to go get my.

[02:02] A financial advisor.

[02:04] And that just started,

[02:06] you know, a new journey. But welcome. I’m psyched to have you here.

[02:11] Carl Richards: Thank you. I’m really. Everything you talk about are the things you talk about are my favorite subjects. So I’m excited to have this conversation.

[02:19] Tara Bansal: Oh, great.

[02:20] I’m gonna ask the question I always begin because wherever I am, whether it’s a teacher or speaker,

[02:27] and I love asking questions, but what’s your story? Like, I wanna know more about you and where you came from.

[02:35] Carl Richards: Yeah, that’s, that’s so interesting. Like, where you go. Cause, like, the first thing I,

[02:41] I recently had this experience where I saw a friend that I hadn’t seen for 25 years.

[02:48] And we were friends in elementary school and junior high and high school. And he said to me after 25 years of not seeing me, he said,

[02:56] I mean, I can’t wait to ask you, like, what are you up to right now?

[03:00] And I was like, what do you mean? He’s like, well, you’re always up to. He hadn’t seen me in 25 years. Like, you’re always up to something like breakdancing,

[03:06] you know, hacky hacky sack. If you went through like the list of things, skateboarding, like the list of things in high school.

[03:13] And so like when somebody asked me what my story is, that’s like the first place I go is like, I just like to be up to something.

[03:20] And I think that started,

[03:23] I didn’t know it. And it’s always tempting to like look back and make up cute stories or like nice clean narratives.

[03:33] I didn’t know this was happening, but what was happening. But I make sense of it now. Like I was a really high energy,

[03:42] super like.

[03:44] And this led to lots of trouble.

[03:47] But even at the youngest age, my mom said she could tell when I came in the house even if she couldn’t hear me.

[03:56] And I’ve always been.

[03:58] Tara Bansal: Because she felt your energy.

[04:01] Carl Richards: I, I need to ask her to expand on that a little bit. But yes, that’s what she was pointing to was that there was a like.

[04:08] And that led to me getting into lots of trouble. I mean, my parents were divorced when I was 8. I don’t really know what it’s like to have a dad around.

[04:15] Um,

[04:16] that led to me getting into a whole lot of trouble. In junior high. High I was always in trouble, which is now. I love being in trouble in the like, kind of like trouble making trouble sort of way.

[04:27] But this,

[04:28] this kind of trouble was not helpful on anybody in my family. So I tried to channel that a bit through lots of activities outside.

[04:38] So I skied a lot and rock climbed a lot and played some sports,

[04:44] which I loved,

[04:45] and then got super lucky. Not even quite sure how it happened to meet my future wife.

[04:56] That was 10 times over my head. You know, in terms of like everything about like,

[05:01] it’s not the kind of. I was not the kind of kid that kids from her neighborhood would date. You know, her, her mom, her mom actually tried to pay her to date other people,

[05:11] which is great. And I don’t hold any, hold that against her in any way. I mean, at the time it was rather painful, but now it’s just kind of funny.

[05:18] Tara Bansal: So how did you guys meet?

[05:19] Carl Richards: At a ski shop. She was working. I, I spent a year kind of traveling around just skiing. Like,

[05:25] I think we got close to a hundred days of skiing in that year. And my friends worked at a,

[05:31] a ski shop back in the back tuning skis and they would let me come in and tune my own skis. So I used to go into this shop and Corey worked in the front of the shop, like in the kind of clothing section of the shop.

[05:41] And I’d better. But again, it took me,

[05:44] I think she says three months. I think it was more like one month. But it took me after my friends told me that she had expressed some interest, it took me over a month to ask her out.

[05:54] Not because I didn’t, it was cuz I was flat out scared. I was like, there’s no way.

[05:58] So that’s when we met. And then we had,

[06:01] we met over the Christmas break. She had torn. Torn her acl and so I went to visit her at the hospital and we were engaged on April 15, four months later, tax day, very romantic day to get engaged.

[06:16] And we were married in June, so six.

[06:19] Less than seven months from the date we, the day we met.

[06:22] Tara Bansal: And how old were you when you got married?

[06:25] Carl Richards: Um,

[06:26] that’s such a,

[06:28] such a silly question that I should be able to do so fast. I actually am literally doing the math. 23. I was 23. She was just turned 25,

[06:36] quickly had. We have four kids.

[06:38] Um,

[06:39] and you know, I’ve spent our time sort of in the foothills of,

[06:45] of Salt Lake and then Park City, Las Vegas and four years in New Zealand.

[06:50] So that’s kind of,

[06:51] that’s kind of the, the almost like resume version of my story.

[06:56] Tara Bansal: What did you study? Did you go to college?

[07:01] Carl Richards: Yeah, yeah. It was, it was purely an accident.

[07:05] I always joke with my, my kids who are far more,

[07:12] far more. I don’t know what the right word is, like capable,

[07:16] disciplined. I don’t know what the right word is. But I got into schools that are hard to get into.

[07:20] I always joke that I.

[07:22] The University of Utah had open enrollment back when I applied and they. I still didn’t get in.

[07:28] But I eventually got into the University of Utah. I didn’t know what I wanted to study.

[07:32] I defaulted into business.

[07:34] I met with somebody who was like, hey, if you’re gonna get a business degree. A really successful mentor of mine was like, if you’re gonna get a business degree, get, get like a tech.

[07:41] The most technical one you can. So either finance or accounting.

[07:44] I got a degree in. Corey was studying finance, so I was like, oh, that seems like a good idea. She graduated with a finance degree, so I got a degree in finance.

[07:52] Tara Bansal: And what happened after that? You graduated?

[07:56] Carl Richards: Yeah, I,

[07:58] and I never felt right about the degree in finance, to be honest. I always thought I was gonna do like organizational psych,

[08:06] sort of Stephen Covey kind of stuff, executive coaching stuff. And I thought that’s like. I just thought this was like. And I thought this for maybe 10 years of my career as a financial advisor.

[08:16] I was like, this is just a.

[08:17] Kind of a mistake I’ll get out of later.

[08:20] And then I’ll we can talk about how things changed. But during. When I was in school,

[08:26] still an undeclared major, before finance,

[08:29] I applied for a job that I thought,

[08:34] this is a true story. I’ve told it so many times. But, like, I thought it was a security guard job,

[08:39] but it actually. The ad said securities, but I didn’t know what the difference between that was. So I ended up at Fidelity’s.

[08:46] Fidelity’s national call center here in Salt Lake, answering calls. So then I was in the financial advice space.

[08:53] So I. And I just never got out, despite Corey and I often saying, like, hey, we should take a summer to go be river guides or we should go travel.

[09:03] It was just sort of this, like.

[09:05] But this job led to the next one and the next one. And you can see that one six months away. And you can see that one six months away. So that’s.

[09:11] Got a job as a.

[09:12] In finance.

[09:14] Within a year. Had left to a big brokerage firm to, like, get my own clients.

[09:20] And then maybe. I can’t remember how long, a decade later, I left to start my own firm.

[09:27] Tara Bansal: And then. When did you start the sketches? And that part.

[09:33] Carl Richards: Yeah. So I was still working at a big brokerage firm,

[09:37] which I loved and had great training at and didn’t have a single bad experience.

[09:42] But I was. I remember being in the conference room of that firm talking with a client, and I didn’t doodle in high school or,

[09:53] like, I wasn’t. I’m still not a doodler.

[09:57] I didn’t have any art background,

[10:00] but I remember being in the specific meeting and having a client.

[10:04] I was trying to explain a concept. I remember who it was. Dave and Diane were their names.

[10:09] Trying to explain a concept to them. They were both really smart, really successful people.

[10:15] And so when. When I was getting these blank stares, it was like the first moment where I thought,

[10:19] wait, they’re super smart.

[10:22] This must be a problem with me. And I. I actually kind of thought I was good at this. I already thought I was pretty good at explaining things,

[10:30] and,

[10:31] man. So out of an act of desperation,

[10:33] I stood up and for the first time, like, opened the whiteboard in the shared conference room and drew, like, you know, some arrows in the box in a circle or something.

[10:43] And they were like, oh, I get it now.

[10:45] And I remember that feeling, just being like, oh, that’s super. And again, I don’t want to make up some fancy narrative. All that meant was, I did it again.

[10:53] You know, I was like, I’ll try that in the next meeting and I’ll Try that in the next meeting. And a client said,

[10:58] a client that was at the meeting and their spouse wasn’t at the meeting called after the meeting and said, hey, that thing you drew,

[11:07] could you.

[11:08] I. I think it was like scan and email it to me.

[11:12] And I was like. And when I remember specifically thinking,

[11:16] when I saw it go out sort of digitally, I saw it go out, I thought, I just had the thought I could send this to other people. So there no grand conclusion, just I could send this to other people.

[11:26] So I did. I sent it to a few other people. And then I started.

[11:29] Anytime I’d get a question more than once.

[11:33] So anytime I get a question from a client more than once,

[11:36] I would write the answer and I would send it out as a new. I would say, hey, a few people have asked this. And I would send it out to my 17 people on my newsletter or whatever.

[11:47] And I would also include a.

[11:49] A diagram trying. I didn’t know what to call them, just a diagram trying to explain it.

[11:53] And.

[11:54] And then one day I was like, huh, I wonder if I just. This was like when blogs first became a thing. Yeah,

[12:01] I put em. I started putting up on it. I started this little website. It was first, it was called Tara. I haven’t told very many people this. It was called the Emotional Gap.

[12:09] Tara Bansal: Huh.

[12:09] Carl Richards: Cause I was trying to solve this problem of buying high, selling low. Again, I was in an investment centric world. Investment returns, investor returns, you know, like. And I was like, the only reason that could be is because of emotion.

[12:22] And I call it Emotional Gap. And then I was like, actually maybe I’ll just use behavior.

[12:27] And so that’s why the blog was called Behavior Gap. And I started posting them there. And one thing led to another.

[12:35] Tara Bansal: Wow, it’s been a pretty phenomenal. I mean, to get where you are. What motivated you to go out on your own after the brokerage firm?

[12:47] Carl Richards: It’s so like all these decisions are. And I’m going to just try to be super honest about them because none of them were smart, none of them were grand plans. None of them were thoughtful.

[12:58] They were just so. I literally. I wanted access to a specific type of investment. I could not get inside the brokerage world. I wanted access to dimensional fund advisors. I couldn’t get access to DFA in the bro.

[13:10] I had the copy of Fortune or Money Ma, whatever one that said how the real smart money invests and had a picture of David Booth and Rex Syncvist on the front.

[13:19] And I had it in my top drawer at the brokerage firm. So every time I opened it, I saw it and I was always clam. I think part of this was I was always trying to fill some hole in my own self esteem where I was like.

[13:35] And there was another piece of it that was, that was like I always was process driven. Like I wanted to understand. I remember going around to the senior advisors and saying, how do you make investment decisions?

[13:47] And I’d get answers, like, have a hunch, buy a bunch. Like nobody could tell me what the real job was. But then there was this magazine that said how they’re really smart people.

[13:54] Part of that was I wanted my grandma to feel good about me. Right. I didn’t go to law school, so there was part of that, that, that I was looking to fill a self esteem issue.

[14:06] Another part of it was I was looking for, I was trying to find a process I could defend.

[14:11] I wanted a defensible investment process. So I left with four kids,

[14:16] you know, no insurance, like to get access to demand. That doesn’t make a lot of sense.

[14:22] And then one of the side reasons I, I found out later was so I could do public work and have ownership of that intellectual property. Right. Like as I started putting these sketches up online,

[14:33] I couldn’t have done that at the big brokerage firm. So that’s why I left.

[14:38] You know, one last thing. I also wanted to be able to call myself a fiduciary.

[14:42] I remember that being important.

[14:43] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[14:44] Carl Richards: That was because I was super discouraged.

[14:46] It was like one of the greatest disappointment of my career that when I could finally call myself a fiduciary, nobody cared.

[14:54] You know, it turns out like clients, clients don’t.

[14:57] Tara Bansal: Because they were smart once they know you. Yeah, yeah.

[14:59] Carl Richards: They’re like, well, don’t you do that anyway? Like, yeah, I’m like, yeah, it’s a good point.

[15:03] Tara Bansal: So anyway, do you remember what year you got your cfp?

[15:08] Carl Richards: Ah,

[15:09] it’s not on the wall behind me.

[15:12] No. I mean I could go in and look, but I was still. I remember I got made fun of because. So it probably would have been 98 or 99.

[15:22] Tara Bansal: Okay.

[15:23] Carl Richards: Because the people at the big brokerage firm were like, what the. Why are you wasting your time with that? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[15:28] Tara Bansal: I feel like that’s a common. And then when you decided to sell your firm, what motivated you then?

[15:36] Carl Richards: Yeah, again,

[15:38] you know, like a, A bunch of things that happened.

[15:42] You know,

[15:45] again, with no grand plan. The, the New York Times email where the editor asked me if I would be willing to do these for him and I was like, sure.

[15:53] Of course, I knew enough to say yes to that.

[15:56] And then a year into that, a major publisher asked if I’d do a book. And I. I again, was just sort of like, I don’t even know what that mean.

[16:05] I literally replied to that email with an email that said, hey, I’m just a kid from the hills in Utah. I don’t even know what these words mean. Like,

[16:12] explain this to me. And.

[16:14] Tara Bansal: And was your first book the one page financial plan?

[16:16] Carl Richards: The first book was the Behavior Gap. Both of those books, the one page plan and Behavior, were with Penguin Portfolio.

[16:23] Tara Bansal: Okay.

[16:23] Carl Richards: So to get a chance. And there’s nothing. There’s no repeatable.

[16:28] There’s nothing to learn from this except sort of like,

[16:33] play in traffic, follow what you love. Like, these were all just series of decisions that I couldn’t not do,

[16:40] you know? Like, it wasn’t.

[16:42] I never said.

[16:44] I remember on my bookshelf,

[16:47] I had three of Seth Godin’s books,

[16:50] and the portfolio logo is the archer shooting an arrow at the sun, right?

[16:57] And I remember walking past that once and saying to myself,

[17:00] gosh, that logo’s cool.

[17:03] Like, that was the grand. That was the grand plan. There was no, like, goal.

[17:07] I didn’t even say. I think I might have said in my head,

[17:11] man, if I ever wrote a book, it’d be cool if that. That logo’s cool. Like, that’s the. That was it. Not like, I’m going to write a book. No, no.

[17:17] Manifesting nothing. And then one day when I got my book and I put it on the shelf, I put it next to Seth’s books, and I was like, oh, my gosh,

[17:25] it’s the same logo.

[17:28] So the same thing happened with selling the firm was like, I was never planned on doing it. In fact, I was intent on never, ever doing that.

[17:38] And the book was about to come out. It wasn’t out yet, but I was getting all these speaking requests, and I was clearly enjoying it a lot.

[17:47] And I was forced to make a decision in my mind at least.

[17:51] I had these clients I loved that deserved the planning they had been getting.

[17:58] Could I still provide that and do this other thing? I was going to have to say no to something.

[18:03] And I came home one day and told. I started to get offers because people were sort of like.

[18:08] They kind of wanted me to come work for the firm and be a little bit of like a,

[18:12] you know, whatever public face of the firm.

[18:17] I had two different offers, and I told my wife, Corey, that,

[18:21] like, hey, I’m gonna just say notable thieves and she said,

[18:25] hey, we’ve always thought of this as a security blanket. Maybe it’s become an anchor.

[18:31] And I was like, wow, that’s really weird,

[18:33] you know, like,

[18:35] so I, that’s, that’s how it happened is I, I said yes to one of them and really glad I did. They have taken massively good care of my clients. And so that’s how I decided.

[18:47] Tara Bansal: Very cool.

[18:49] What?

[18:50] I listened to your podcast, and I listen and recommend it and talk about it all the time. The 50 fires.

[18:58] And one question you always ask, and I don’t feel like I know the answer, so I apologize if you have. But what’s your, your first memory of money?

[19:08] Carl Richards: Yeah, it’s, it’s. I’ve been asked that not as many times as I, as you would think now, but two or three different people have,

[19:17] have asked because of 50 fires.

[19:21] And I, I, I’m,

[19:22] I’m, again, I’m trying to be really careful about making up stories in our own minds about narratives. But my sense is, my belief is I have two that come up.

[19:34] One was just a feeling,

[19:37] like, my earliest feeling around money, my kind of earliest memory of money. Is there not being enough?

[19:44] Right. That it was scary that there was, you know, that.

[19:49] And I don’t think that was communicated by anybody. I don’t, I don’t think anybody, certainly nobody did anything wrong.

[19:55] But I just remember, I think it goes back to my parents divorce when I was 8.

[20:01] I just remember my mom always kind of trying to. And again, I don’t. I mean, I had a ski pass at Snowbird, for heaven’s sakes. Like, it’s not a, it’s not like a,

[20:12] you know, there wasn’t a lot of money, but I still had a ski pass. That was interesting to me.

[20:17] We had a hard time staying in the neighborhood that we landed in because of money. And I, and so I remember that. I remember being conflicted by it. And then the other thing I remember is even before that,

[20:31] I remember at the golf course here in Park City,

[20:36] I. We used to go dive.

[20:39] Literally, like, with goggles. We would dive in the lakes. And this is when we were like six and seven. We, we could. I mean, it’s so crazy. Back then, we’d just leave on our bikes in the morning every day of the summer, and we wouldn’t come back until somebody yelled Dukes of Hazzard was on.

[20:52] So we were just out all day, and we would dive in the golf course and we’d gather balls, and then we’d sell them at the, at the tee.

[20:59] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[21:00] Carl Richards: And I had a bunch of money and we were at. We had this condo there. This is back when Park City was just a sleepy little mountain town.

[21:08] And I had lost some change in the couch.

[21:11] It’s like a quarter.

[21:13] And I tipped the couch upside down and I tore the bottom of the couch open and I reached in to find the quarter and I pulled out a diamond earring.

[21:22] And we, we. We let everybody know who’d stayed. Like, as I recall, it was.

[21:26] We somehow had control of this condo. Whether it was our condo or my dad just managed it or something, but everybody know. Nobody said anything. So we. I. My mom put it in a safety deposit box.

[21:37] So I remember that because I tried to spend that like at least a hundred times. I was like, gimme that diamond ring. I’m gonna buy a new bike or give me.

[21:45] She never did it. Ended up paying for my wedding ring, Corey’s wedding ring, and a watch for each of us because it just.

[21:53] When we went to trade it in, that’s how valuable it was. So I remember that. I remember like digging through the couch.

[21:59] Tara Bansal: And diving for golf balls and selling those.

[22:04] Carl Richards: I mean, yeah, for sure, for sure.

[22:07] But no, yeah, yeah. More though, I remember the.

[22:10] And I don’t know if I’ve made this up,

[22:12] but talking to my mom and my dad, I haven’t made it up, but yeah, I remember this sense of scarcity, the sense of.

[22:22] And also like this weird juxtaposition that I had a. And back then, ski passes were nothing. You know what I mean? Like a season pass for a local was nothing.

[22:29] But the fact that I had a ski pass at the best resort in the world and there was a sense that we didn’t have enough is a very interesting dilemma for me that I’m still trying to work it through.

[22:41] Tara Bansal: Hmm. I could throw out a bunch of guesses at that, but. But that’s something you valued. I don’t know how much your family valued, but for how active you were, that was a good.

[22:56] I could just imagine your mom be like, this is a good place away for him to channel that.

[23:03] Carl Richards: For sure. Those mountains in a very real way that. That specific area of this mountain range saved my life more than once. So it was really important to me. So, yeah, there is an alignment there, but it’s still interesting.

[23:18] Tara Bansal: How would you describe what you do now?

[23:26] Carl Richards: I think I just notice things in the world and try to communicate them. And the things I primarily notice are how to have a more meaningful life. Like I’m. I.

[23:42] I think of my Work as an adventure journal.

[23:45] That’s not a self help, not a prescriptive advice, none of that. I just think of it as an adventure journal. Like, hey, I’m on this adventure.

[23:55] If you are on a similar adventure, you may find the fact that there’s a spring here. On hot days, I’ve noticed there’s water,

[24:02] but if you’re not hot and you’re not thirsty and you’re not there,

[24:05] don’t worry about it. So I think largely what I do now is notice.

[24:12] Try to notice my own struggles and problems and challenges.

[24:20] Wrestle with them a lot, sometimes for more than a decade. Like, I have examples of sketches that have been like a decade single words that I’ve worked on for a decade, which I just love.

[24:32] It drives me crazy, but I love when it happens.

[24:36] So I think it’s trying to notice things in the world about how to live a more meaningful life.

[24:43] It’s largely through the entry point of money.

[24:47] But money is not the important part. It’s just the entry point.

[24:50] Tara Bansal: The entry point.

[24:50] Carl Richards: And then share that with the world. And I’m just lucky that we live in a time when it’s easy to share and there are enough people that just out of strict odds,

[25:01] there are enough people that if you share enough,

[25:03] you’ll find a group of people that say, hey, I like that, and give you permission to continue to do it in various forms.

[25:12] Tara Bansal: I’m really curious. I feel like you juggle a lot.

[25:15] I mean, you have your podcast, you have the one with Michael, you have the, you know, society of advice. You have. How do you manage and juggle all the different things that you do?

[25:34] Carl Richards: I don’t, I don’t. It’s. It’s interesting because I feel like I’m saying no a lot.

[25:41] Like I’ve got so many more things I want to do than I have time.

[25:47] And so what. I’ve.

[25:49] What lately? And I. It’s only been. Lately that I’ve been getting slightly better at. This is like really trying to get rid of things that are not.

[25:59] It’s not. Look,

[26:01] okay, the. The easy stuff on the list is things that I don’t like doing.

[26:05] Like, that’s the easy stuff on the list.

[26:07] Like,

[26:08] and we’re getting closer. I. I actually kind of have a goal and today has reinforced it. I’ve had.

[26:15] I. I mean, I’m so deeply grateful for.

[26:18] Sorry.

[26:20] The opportunity to have conversations like this. That there are people like you that care enough. And I’ve had two or three of them today,

[26:29] and each one of them I’m just like. I hang up. I’m just like, I can’t believe this person took that kind of time to be so thoughtful.

[26:37] And I. When I’m in one of those days, I’m like, this is all I want to do.

[26:41] And so I’m literally like, I don’t ever want to see a calendar again other than, like, tell me where I’m supposed to be. I don’t ever want to touch an email again.

[26:48] I have sort of a goal, and we’re getting close.

[26:51] I don’t want to touch a keyboard.

[26:56] So I. Number one, I try to get rid of things that I. I don’t like doing. Number two,

[27:02] I try to get rid of things that are literally a waste of time. And I’m not very good at this yet. I’m getting better, but, like, checking Instagram or checking ESPN or checking the New York Times, those don’t do me any good.

[27:12] So I try to get rid of those.

[27:13] And then the last thing, which I think is really hard, is I have to start saying no. And I just did. I just said no to something I deeply want to do.

[27:21] Um,

[27:23] yeah. In fact, I can tell you we held retreats at the house this year,

[27:27] and next year we’re gonna. We held six this year. Next year we’re gonna just hold four, plus a special one for a special group of people.

[27:34] But so it. When we narrowed it down to four,

[27:37] I was like, oh, no. Cause this year we did a women’s retreat.

[27:40] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I wanted to ask about that.

[27:42] Carl Richards: Yeah, yeah. Which they kindly allowed me to come to, but it was hosted. Co hosted by Danika. And it was amazing. And my wife and Danika co hosted and then just allowed me to come.

[27:54] And we loved it.

[27:56] But we’ve been getting this suggestion for two or three years to do a couple’s retreat where it’s like the financial planner and their spouse or partner,

[28:04] and not the one you and I have both seen where it’s like the spouse goes to yoga or fly fishing.

[28:11] Like, why?

[28:11] No, we’re in together. Like, together. And the goal, the request seems to be like,

[28:18] we just need to talk a little bit about how to navigate uncertainty and the kind of the chaos of the business that spills into the family. And we’d love to hear you and Corey talk.

[28:26] So we want to do that, and we’re scared to death to do it.

[28:29] And that’s always a good sign for Corey and I were like, my wife’s name is Corey. It was like,

[28:33] okay, we’re scary. So I had to say no to the women’s retreat. Even though I really. We only have room for four retreats,

[28:40] so we’re going to do a couples retreat instead. So that’s an example of something really good, if not great.

[28:48] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[28:49] Carl Richards: That I had to say no to. So I practice that. That’s how I juggle things.

[28:53] I’m not very good. I’m not very good at it, but I’m working on it.

[28:57] Tara Bansal: And I want. Because my listeners are primarily female financial advisors.

[29:02] Carl Richards: What.

[29:03] Tara Bansal: Where did the. Wow. Where did the women’s retreat come from? Was that just there was requests for it or how did that come about?

[29:12] Carl Richards: Yeah, I had always wanted to do it because my impression. So this is the Society of Advice.

[29:18] You know, there’s 500 or so members.

[29:23] 200 probably attend the 150 to 200 attend the weekly call or the monthly call live. And then.

[29:29] So we were starting to do retreats just for members of the Society of Advice. And we had repeated requests of like, have you ever thought of doing a women’s retreat at.

[29:39] But to be honest, not as many requests as I thought we would have.

[29:43] And so we even asked a couple times and we always got a mixed reply of like, I would love that. And we got replies from other women advisors who were like, no, it’s.

[29:52] I’m used to it. Like, it’s.

[29:54] So I didn’t know what to make of that, but we’d always wanted to try it.

[30:00] My wife is also,

[30:02] I think,

[30:03] pretty gifted at creating space for people and so I knew that would work. And I think really highly of Danika and having her involved was great.

[30:13] So that’s where it came from.

[30:15] Tara Bansal: Okay, and what, what were some of your takeaways from that retreat for? Like, differences or.

[30:24] Carl Richards: Yeah, just. No, thanks.

[30:25] Tara Bansal: With women.

[30:26] Carl Richards: Thanks for asking. And let me be really clear. Like, it feels really odd that it was a women’s retreat and I was there. Um,

[30:33] but we asked like, should I be there? And people were like, well, no, that’s part of the reason we’re. Yeah, coming. Um, so it.

[30:43] There’s a couple things that were really interesting to me. First of all, and I can’t.

[30:48] I. I want to say this without it sounding stereotypical, but there was a lot of talking and even like, like when I picked people up,

[30:56] I rent a sprinter van and drive over. This is me driving over, drive over to pick everybody up from the hotel. And in the mixed groups that ride back to the house, the very first ride by the house is often pretty quiet cuz people don’t know Each other.

[31:09] Right. They’re just, but in that group it was from the jump, you know, like lots of conversation which I thought was really cool.

[31:16] I think again,

[31:20] I, I in no way want to sound cliche, but I think it’s really a reasonable thing to,

[31:26] to have expected that we were able to get.

[31:30] The whole goal of the retreats is to get deep as quick as we can and sometimes that takes some work. Like we gotta, there’s gotta work and get people in and you know, some questions.

[31:42] But with the women’s retreat it was just boom, like we were, we were right in there which was,

[31:48] which was amazing.

[31:52] The thoughtfulness of,

[31:55] of support,

[31:56] inter support. So there’s a, sometimes there’s a slightly like me as the hub and each person is the spoke because they don’t know each other in. But in this group it was a lot of spoke to spoke, you know, like immediate support and help.

[32:16] So those are some of the things I know we left right after for a five day trip up in the mountains with my family and it was, it was just my wife and my three daughters.

[32:26] My son didn’t come and I can tell you,

[32:29] driving on the trip I was literally like, hey, I’m gonna put my earphones in.

[32:34] Because it was a lot of talking, which I, I, I, I was super thrilled about, but I needed some quiet. So anyway, it was, it was,

[32:43] it was really, really fun. I was super rewarding. One of the best things I’ve done in my career.

[32:50] Tara Bansal: How do you, how can we make financial planning more inviting and supportive for women to thrive and to join as planners? Yes.

[33:02] Carl Richards: Okay. Okay. Not as clients. I mean that’s a, that’s an equally interesting question.

[33:06] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I, I totally agree and I.

[33:10] Carl Richards: Don’T, I don’t look, I, again, like I’m hesitant because who am I, I, I, I don’t know. But my, my sen is actively like intentionally going out of your way. Like I love that like that language is super interesting, like out of your way to draw to create space for any unique pers.

[33:43] And it’s relatively unique given the makeup of our industry. Any unique perspective.

[33:49] And I think the way you do that and I’ve, I’ve noticed this, I even noticed this over the last couple of days,

[33:56] you know, being on podcasts that might be co hosted by a male and a female advisor and I’ll notice the need to actively include,

[34:08] you know, and ask and draw in.

[34:12] I noticed this last week with a,

[34:19] actually it doesn’t really intentionally go out of your way to ask like hey, what do you think about that or. I’m dealing with this situation. How would you handle it?

[34:31] And I want to make a really,

[34:34] a point that’s really important to me.

[34:36] I think intentionally creating space for voices that have been underrepresented in our industry is important on its own.

[34:48] It’s important on its own.

[34:49] I.

[34:50] For me, that’s not the most interesting and important reason to do it.

[34:54] The most interesting, important reason for me to do it. Again, I don’t want to. I want to be clear here. It’s an important reason on its own,

[35:00] but the most interesting, important reason for it is because it’s so interesting.

[35:06] Right. Like, we. Getting.

[35:09] We’re not going to solve as an industry, we’re not going to solve the problems we have not been able to solve with the same voices.

[35:18] Right. So getting. It’s. It’s what makes life and work magic. It’s what gives rich context is like new perspectives that I haven’t heard before. Like, I.

[35:29] So I’m not asking, I’m not creating space for,

[35:33] you know, I’m on a panel and there’s one woman and four men on the panel. And I’m going to actively look for ways to make sure that the woman on the panel gets more equal or more time.

[35:45] And I’m going to keep track of it. Okay, fine. That’s fine. But I’m actually asking because I’m really honestly curious because the perspective I get is something that often has not occurred to my mind.

[35:57] And this is the same. This is of any population that’s been underrepresented. Suddenly I’m like, oh, my gosh, I’ve never thought of that.

[36:05] That’s so helpful.

[36:07] So that’s like I was on a panel or actually just the two of us with Christi Archuleta at shift one year. And I selfishly, I wanted to listen to her.

[36:19] Right. You know what I mean? Like, I was learning more from her. So I think if we can just intentionally realize that,

[36:27] A, it’s a good idea on its own,

[36:30] B, it makes us better individually. It makes us better as an industry. It makes us. We could maybe solve problems that need new and innovative ideas that the same old ideas aren’t going to solve.

[36:44] Tara Bansal: Thank you. Any, like, actionable things we. You feel like we can do?

[36:54] Carl Richards: Yeah. I mean, sure, we can look to hire, we can look to promote. We can ask questions. I asked this question two weeks ago on a speed like, is there, you know,

[37:07] who else is speaking at this,

[37:09] at this conference? Is there a way I can take my slot? This is A question I asked two weeks ago, like, can I take my slot?

[37:16] And is there somebody from your organization that would like to be in a moderated Q and A with me?

[37:24] So they’re on the stage with me, like, so, yeah, we can.

[37:27] Tara Bansal: Sharing the spotlight and sharing.

[37:29] Carl Richards: Sharing the spotlight. But again, I, I, look, I don’t want to sound too altruistic. Like, that’s, that, that is a good idea on its own. But I’m mainly doing it because it’s so much more interesting for me.

[37:40] So, yeah, I think we actively look for it. We encourage, we watch our language. Like, I had a sketch once that said it was about peer pressure and it had like,

[37:51] herd of sheep investors. It was 3 diagram, 3, 3 circle Venn diagram, herd of sheep investors. And I had put the last one said teenage girls.

[38:01] And it, my editor at the time, my, my editor’s editor was female and she was like, that was great.

[38:08] So it was all fine. But in hindsight, I’ve now changed it. It’s in the book now.

[38:12] Tara Bansal: I know it says teenagers.

[38:14] Carl Richards: Just, it says teenagers. And I’m not ashamed about the idea of changing that because I have three teenage daughters and I, or at the time had three teenage daughters. I wouldn’t want even a hint of them being less capable of making financial decisions.

[38:29] So I think we pay attention to that. And where we make mistakes,

[38:32] we take correction, we listen to it, we decide how to adjust it, we make room for all of us to make mistakes,

[38:40] and we make room for all of us to provide feedback on those mistakes.

[38:45] Tara Bansal: We’re almost out of time. I would love just if you have a favorite book, podcast or resource lately that you would like to recommend.

[38:56] Carl Richards: So that’s,

[38:58] I mean, here’s the challenge.

[39:02] I don’t know that it’s,

[39:04] I, I,

[39:06] I’m deeply right now into spending long days or large chunks of time outside with my new hunting dog that I’m training.

[39:20] The dog’s not the important part, actually, the hunting’s not the important part. The dog and long walks. So I’ve gotten deep into a lot of, like, books around Western. I’m reading a amazing book right now called Buffalo for the Brokenhearted,

[39:33] for the Broken Heart. And it’s just about a buffalo rancher in Montana. Like, so I think maybe what I would, what that points to, to me is I’m just awakening to something that I can now see there were sparks of 20 years ago,

[39:52] and I have jammed it down and crammed it down and said, don’t pay attention to, you know, be responsible and I think I would use podcasts or books or magazines.

[40:04] You know, like, what is it that you notice yourself picking up when you’re not paying attention?

[40:13] You know, like, what is it that you’re like, oh, that’s so interesting. I keep reading books about gardening or landscape design or.

[40:22] So my specific recommendations I don’t think will be particularly helpful right now. Cause every extra hour I am, I’m trying to think about how to have a better relationship with this dog and the western landscape that I live in.

[40:36] Tara Bansal: But that’s a statement in itself, so.

[40:37] Carl Richards: That’S great for sure.

[40:39] Tara Bansal: So pay attention, I feel like, to what you’re drawn to and follow it.

[40:45] Carl Richards: Yeah, give, I call this Dancing with Dragons. Like, give yourself permission instead of cramming it down.

[40:52] You know, like, when are you going to be responsible? Don’t pay attention to such things. Like you’ve probably spent 10, 15, 20, 30 years saying like,

[41:00] no, no, no, no, no. But I think like if you go to a concert or you go to a sporting event or you go to an art museum, or you go to the, and you notice something that’s just a teeny little, teeny little.

[41:11] You’ve even forgotten what it’s like to feel the spark. If you’re like me,

[41:15] there’s a teeny little spark. Like just be like, I don’t have to make any major decisions. I don’t have to blow my life up. I don’t have to quit my job.

[41:22] I can just dance with that a little bit. Right? Like I can just notice it and pay attention to it. Give it to give yourself permission to explore that a little bit.

[41:30] Because I think that’s, that’s it. It’s actually a lot of the work we do with clients. Like give yourself permission to do the same things you’re trying to give your clients permission to do.

[41:39] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I, I agree with that. Do you have a self care ritual that keeps you grounded or that you love? Just something you.

[41:47] Carl Richards: Yeah,

[41:48] yeah,

[41:51] for sure. The,

[41:53] the,

[41:55] the landscape sort of garden of our house.

[42:00] These are all things I planted.

[42:02] Like there, there was like we had to tear.

[42:04] There was nothing growing around this house. And I love going out there now and being like, oh, I, I, I literally do a lap around the rock wall we built.

[42:17] I check on every, sometimes I, I like, hey, you’re doing great today.

[42:21] Tara Bansal: Talk to him.

[42:21] Carl Richards: Yeah, yeah.

[42:23] That I love. And then the other thing that’s been really,

[42:26] really unplanned and impressive in terms of its impact on my life is what an animal requires of you,

[42:35] you know, like, if you’re gonna do it right.

[42:37] Like, I can’t go train this dog.

[42:41] If I’m impatient or tired,

[42:44] I can only because it doesn’t work.

[42:47] And so it’s that to me, like, time with.

[42:51] Because my kids are all out of the house, like, this used to be, like. Right. But time with the kids, time with the family,

[42:57] time on my bike, on the trails,

[43:00] time with my feet. Literally, with. No, you know, just my bare feet in the soil, working on the yard. That. That’s the kind of stuff that I focus on.

[43:07] Tara Bansal: Very nice. What’s something bringing you joy right now?

[43:13] Carl Richards: Yeah, these conversations.

[43:15] Like, I. I literally am just, like, it’s so amazing to be it. To have permission to do something you care so deeply about. So there’s, like, having these kind of conversations is bringing me lots of joy.

[43:32] So thanks for doing it, Tara.

[43:33] Tara Bansal: Oh, thank you. And just thank you, Carl, for all your wisdom, all you share and just your generosity and even coming and being here, you know.

[43:44] And I know I will talk about your book, and that’s a side thing, but anything else you want to share or a question you wish I had asked?

[43:58] Carl Richards: I mean, other than, like, to your listeners specifically, like, I. I can’t really even imagine, even though I’ve heard the stories,

[44:06] you know, like, this isn’t the easiest place to find your footing.

[44:11] Um,

[44:12] and.

[44:13] But to the degree that you can, like, please don’t give up on that little. Like, that little dream, you know, that little glimmer of like. No, no, I actually want to.

[44:22] I. I know that there. There’s going to be voices saying, that’s not the way we do it here.

[44:26] Like, maybe you listen to those voices as a. As you need to for a little while, sort of like. But in the back of your mind, you’re like, the moment I have.

[44:34] Like, and then find those little spots where you can start to carve out space for that dream.

[44:40] And maybe you can say, I’m doing the dream now. Awesome. I’m just saying, either way,

[44:45] like, don’t give up hope on it. Don’t let them. Oh, what does David White say about that? He says, don’t let them smother something simple. Those other voices, don’t let that.

[44:54] Don’t let them smother something simple,

[44:57] because we need the work that you are doing,

[45:01] and the only way it’s gonna happen is if you can keep the courage and the strength to keep sort of not letting them smother something simple. So that’s it.

[45:12] Tara Bansal: Wonderful. Thank you.

[45:14] Carl Richards: Cheers, Tara. That was super fun.

[45:16] Tara Bansal: That was very fun.

[45:18] There were so many things in this conversation that I loved and wanted to highlight. I will try to keep this brief.

[45:26] So what stood out to me in this conversation with Carl was the unexpected beauty of where life can take us.

[45:34] His whole career began when he answered a newspaper ad that he thought was for a security guard job,

[45:41] only to realize it was for securities.

[45:44] From there,

[45:45] each quote accident led him somewhere new.

[45:50] Carl reminds us to pay attention to the odd little things that brings us joy,

[45:56] even if they feel like guilty pleasures or seem unrelated to our work.

[46:01] Those sparks are clues to what makes us us and makes us authentic.

[46:07] Some of my favorite lessons from Carl are,

[46:10] and he says these often is one Be who you are and go all the way.

[46:16] Especially as women, we often lose ourselves in people pleasing.

[46:20] His reminder is to stay true to our own voices.

[46:25] Two to be a better advisor.

[46:28] Be a better human.

[46:30] Model the life we want for our clients by prioritizing what matters most family,

[46:36] joy and meaning.

[46:39] 3.

[46:39] Don’t give up on your dream. Do it your way,

[46:43] even if it’s unconventional. Keep carving space for it.

[46:47] And four to lift each other up,

[46:50] Carl challenged us to intentionally invite more women and underrepresented voices into the room.

[46:57] It’s not just good for equity, it makes the work and world richer, more interesting and more innovative.

[47:06] And finally, I love Carl’s framing of money as simply the entry point.

[47:12] His real work is noticing.

[47:15] Noticing life,

[47:16] meaning, struggle and beauty.

[47:18] I love how he talks about what he does as being an adventure journal and sharing that with others so we all can live more fully.

[47:28] Carl has a new book coming out filled with his sketches, 101 sketches and a launch party is happening with Ron Lieber of the New York Times on September 30th.

[47:41] I encourage you to check it out. More details will be in the show notes.

[47:45] Check it out not only for the sketches themselves, but for the mission behind the book to help more of us talk about money in ways that matter.

[47:56] For me, every interaction with Carl reinforces that it’s possible to live with intention,

[48:02] generosity and courage.

[48:05] And that’s the kind of role model I want in my life.

[48:09] Thank you for listening to her life, her practice, her way.

[48:13] A podcast for and about female financial advisors.

[48:17] I truly hope you found something valuable and encouraging in today’s episode.

[48:22] If you did, I’d be so grateful if you’d take a moment to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

[48:30] It helps other phenomenal women in our field find this space.

[48:34] And if you know another advisor who would benefit from these conversations or from the kind of support I offer through coaching,

[48:42] please send this episode to her.

[48:45] If you’re curious about working with me as your coach or interested in being on the podcast, I’d love to hear from you.

[48:53] You can find more details and reach out to me on the contact page of my website.

[48:59] Her Life,

[49:00] her practice herway.com no spaces, no underlines, just the word straight in a row.

[49:08] Until next time, keep building a life and practice. You truly love.

Resources & Links Mentioned in this episode

Carl’s newest book — 101 Sketches That Will Change the Way You Think About Money

Here is the link to pre-order Carl’s newest book on Amazon

Here is the link to place a bulk order of Carl’s book. Listeners can save an additional 5% by using the code: YourMoney5 at checkout.

 

Carl’s Book Launch Party Event Details

When: Tuesday, September 30, 2025

Time: 6–7 p.m. Eastern

Where: Live on Zoom

🔗 Join Zoom directly: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81637651645
📅 Add to calendar: https://addcal.io/e/w96yhcuhxgb4

 

Carl Richards’ website https://behaviorgap.com/ — home of his sketches, writing, and projects

The Society of Advice – https://www.thesocietyofadvice.com — Carl’s community for advisors

50 Fires Podcast — Carl’s show exploring money, meaning, and conversations that matter

Carl’s first book – The Behavior Gap: Simple Ways to Stop Doing Dumb Things with Money

The One-Page Financial Plan: A Simple Way to Be Smart About Your Money — his follow-up book

Ron Lieber — New York Times columnist, mentioned in connection with Carl’s book launch

Buffalo for the Broken Heart by Dan O’Brien — the book Carl is currently reading and loving

Carl Richards started The Sketch Guy column in The New York Times from the hills of Utah, crafting clear, relatable insights about money with just card stock and a Sharpie. The column ran weekly for a decade. This journey began when Carl applied for what he thought was a job as a “security guard,” only to find out the ad actually said “securities.” That slight misstep sparked a lifelong dedication to reshaping how we think about money.

Since then, Carl has become a Certified Financial Planner™, built and sold a successful investment firm, and spoken at financial and investment events worldwide—from Australia to South Africa, the UK, and major economic centers across Europe, Canada, and the United States. His bestsellers, The Behavior Gap and The One-Page Financial Plan, have been translated into over ten languages and continue to resonate globally.

Through his daily podcast, Behavior Gap Radio, which now has over 1,000 episodes and over one million downloads, Carl shares new perspectives on aligning our resources with what truly matters. His latest audio project, 50 Fires, backed by executive producers Chip and Joanna Gaines, explores the intersections of money and meaning with guests like Pete Holmes, David Whyte, Krista Tippett, and his favorite guest by far, his wife, Cori.

Carl founded The Society of Advice, a community of financial planners dedicated to the craft of advice. They gather for a monthly online workshop and frequent retreats in Park City, Utah.

In 2025, Carl will release a new book that, true to form, will be unlike anything seen in the personal finance section—and you better believe there will be sketches (97 of them, to be exact).

When he’s not exploring ideas about money, Carl, a Wilderness First Responder, can be found navigating Utah’s high mountain ridges on foot, skis, or bike. Married to Cori since 1995, they have four kids, whom they consider their best friends.

Carl’s Social media links: LinkedIn, X, Instagram

[00:17] Tara Bansal: Welcome to Her Life, Her Practice, Her Way.

[00:21] A podcast for and about female financial advisors. Tara I’m Tara Conti Bansal. I’ve been a financial planner and life coach for over 20 years.

[00:32] And I believe that when women thrive in this profession, we all win.

[00:38] This show is about sharing our journeys, our struggles, our breakthroughs, and the many ways we build a life and practice that feels true to us.

[00:48] And now I’m extending that mission. Beyond the podcast,

[00:52] I coach female advisors who want to grow a fulfilling practice and a beautiful life that they love.

[01:00] One filled with meaning, freedom, connection, and joy.

[01:04] Whether you’re just starting out, reinventing yourself, or dreaming of what’s next, you’re in the right place.

[01:11] Let’s build this together.

[01:14] Welcome, this is Tara Conti Bansal, and I am beyond thrilled to have Carl Richards here with me on our podcast, Her Life, Her Practice, Her Way.

[01:27] I have to, I’m, I am definitely a fan girl. I first read your one page financial plan way back when, when it came out and loved that book. And that started my admiration for you, Carl.

[01:42] And then,

[01:43] I mean, I,

[01:45] I heard you speak at Steph Bogan’s Limitless and that made a huge impression on me of that you had a financial advisor and that gave me permission to go get my.

[02:02] A financial advisor.

[02:04] And that just started,

[02:06] you know, a new journey. But welcome. I’m psyched to have you here.

[02:11] Carl Richards: Thank you. I’m really. Everything you talk about are the things you talk about are my favorite subjects. So I’m excited to have this conversation.

[02:19] Tara Bansal: Oh, great.

[02:20] I’m gonna ask the question I always begin because wherever I am, whether it’s a teacher or speaker,

[02:27] and I love asking questions, but what’s your story? Like, I wanna know more about you and where you came from.

[02:35] Carl Richards: Yeah, that’s, that’s so interesting. Like, where you go. Cause, like, the first thing I,

[02:41] I recently had this experience where I saw a friend that I hadn’t seen for 25 years.

[02:48] And we were friends in elementary school and junior high and high school. And he said to me after 25 years of not seeing me, he said,

[02:56] I mean, I can’t wait to ask you, like, what are you up to right now?

[03:00] And I was like, what do you mean? He’s like, well, you’re always up to. He hadn’t seen me in 25 years. Like, you’re always up to something like breakdancing,

[03:06] you know, hacky hacky sack. If you went through like the list of things, skateboarding, like the list of things in high school.

[03:13] And so like when somebody asked me what my story is, that’s like the first place I go is like, I just like to be up to something.

[03:20] And I think that started,

[03:23] I didn’t know it. And it’s always tempting to like look back and make up cute stories or like nice clean narratives.

[03:33] I didn’t know this was happening, but what was happening. But I make sense of it now. Like I was a really high energy,

[03:42] super like.

[03:44] And this led to lots of trouble.

[03:47] But even at the youngest age, my mom said she could tell when I came in the house even if she couldn’t hear me.

[03:56] And I’ve always been.

[03:58] Tara Bansal: Because she felt your energy.

[04:01] Carl Richards: I, I need to ask her to expand on that a little bit. But yes, that’s what she was pointing to was that there was a like.

[04:08] And that led to me getting into lots of trouble. I mean, my parents were divorced when I was 8. I don’t really know what it’s like to have a dad around.

[04:15] Um,

[04:16] that led to me getting into a whole lot of trouble. In junior high. High I was always in trouble, which is now. I love being in trouble in the like, kind of like trouble making trouble sort of way.

[04:27] But this,

[04:28] this kind of trouble was not helpful on anybody in my family. So I tried to channel that a bit through lots of activities outside.

[04:38] So I skied a lot and rock climbed a lot and played some sports,

[04:44] which I loved,

[04:45] and then got super lucky. Not even quite sure how it happened to meet my future wife.

[04:56] That was 10 times over my head. You know, in terms of like everything about like,

[05:01] it’s not the kind of. I was not the kind of kid that kids from her neighborhood would date. You know, her, her mom, her mom actually tried to pay her to date other people,

[05:11] which is great. And I don’t hold any, hold that against her in any way. I mean, at the time it was rather painful, but now it’s just kind of funny.

[05:18] Tara Bansal: So how did you guys meet?

[05:19] Carl Richards: At a ski shop. She was working. I, I spent a year kind of traveling around just skiing. Like,

[05:25] I think we got close to a hundred days of skiing in that year. And my friends worked at a,

[05:31] a ski shop back in the back tuning skis and they would let me come in and tune my own skis. So I used to go into this shop and Corey worked in the front of the shop, like in the kind of clothing section of the shop.

[05:41] And I’d better. But again, it took me,

[05:44] I think she says three months. I think it was more like one month. But it took me after my friends told me that she had expressed some interest, it took me over a month to ask her out.

[05:54] Not because I didn’t, it was cuz I was flat out scared. I was like, there’s no way.

[05:58] So that’s when we met. And then we had,

[06:01] we met over the Christmas break. She had torn. Torn her acl and so I went to visit her at the hospital and we were engaged on April 15, four months later, tax day, very romantic day to get engaged.

[06:16] And we were married in June, so six.

[06:19] Less than seven months from the date we, the day we met.

[06:22] Tara Bansal: And how old were you when you got married?

[06:25] Carl Richards: Um,

[06:26] that’s such a,

[06:28] such a silly question that I should be able to do so fast. I actually am literally doing the math. 23. I was 23. She was just turned 25,

[06:36] quickly had. We have four kids.

[06:38] Um,

[06:39] and you know, I’ve spent our time sort of in the foothills of,

[06:45] of Salt Lake and then Park City, Las Vegas and four years in New Zealand.

[06:50] So that’s kind of,

[06:51] that’s kind of the, the almost like resume version of my story.

[06:56] Tara Bansal: What did you study? Did you go to college?

[07:01] Carl Richards: Yeah, yeah. It was, it was purely an accident.

[07:05] I always joke with my, my kids who are far more,

[07:12] far more. I don’t know what the right word is, like capable,

[07:16] disciplined. I don’t know what the right word is. But I got into schools that are hard to get into.

[07:20] I always joke that I.

[07:22] The University of Utah had open enrollment back when I applied and they. I still didn’t get in.

[07:28] But I eventually got into the University of Utah. I didn’t know what I wanted to study.

[07:32] I defaulted into business.

[07:34] I met with somebody who was like, hey, if you’re gonna get a business degree. A really successful mentor of mine was like, if you’re gonna get a business degree, get, get like a tech.

[07:41] The most technical one you can. So either finance or accounting.

[07:44] I got a degree in. Corey was studying finance, so I was like, oh, that seems like a good idea. She graduated with a finance degree, so I got a degree in finance.

[07:52] Tara Bansal: And what happened after that? You graduated?

[07:56] Carl Richards: Yeah, I,

[07:58] and I never felt right about the degree in finance, to be honest. I always thought I was gonna do like organizational psych,

[08:06] sort of Stephen Covey kind of stuff, executive coaching stuff. And I thought that’s like. I just thought this was like. And I thought this for maybe 10 years of my career as a financial advisor.

[08:16] I was like, this is just a.

[08:17] Kind of a mistake I’ll get out of later.

[08:20] And then I’ll we can talk about how things changed. But during. When I was in school,

[08:26] still an undeclared major, before finance,

[08:29] I applied for a job that I thought,

[08:34] this is a true story. I’ve told it so many times. But, like, I thought it was a security guard job,

[08:39] but it actually. The ad said securities, but I didn’t know what the difference between that was. So I ended up at Fidelity’s.

[08:46] Fidelity’s national call center here in Salt Lake, answering calls. So then I was in the financial advice space.

[08:53] So I. And I just never got out, despite Corey and I often saying, like, hey, we should take a summer to go be river guides or we should go travel.

[09:03] It was just sort of this, like.

[09:05] But this job led to the next one and the next one. And you can see that one six months away. And you can see that one six months away. So that’s.

[09:11] Got a job as a.

[09:12] In finance.

[09:14] Within a year. Had left to a big brokerage firm to, like, get my own clients.

[09:20] And then maybe. I can’t remember how long, a decade later, I left to start my own firm.

[09:27] Tara Bansal: And then. When did you start the sketches? And that part.

[09:33] Carl Richards: Yeah. So I was still working at a big brokerage firm,

[09:37] which I loved and had great training at and didn’t have a single bad experience.

[09:42] But I was. I remember being in the conference room of that firm talking with a client, and I didn’t doodle in high school or,

[09:53] like, I wasn’t. I’m still not a doodler.

[09:57] I didn’t have any art background,

[10:00] but I remember being in the specific meeting and having a client.

[10:04] I was trying to explain a concept. I remember who it was. Dave and Diane were their names.

[10:09] Trying to explain a concept to them. They were both really smart, really successful people.

[10:15] And so when. When I was getting these blank stares, it was like the first moment where I thought,

[10:19] wait, they’re super smart.

[10:22] This must be a problem with me. And I. I actually kind of thought I was good at this. I already thought I was pretty good at explaining things,

[10:30] and,

[10:31] man. So out of an act of desperation,

[10:33] I stood up and for the first time, like, opened the whiteboard in the shared conference room and drew, like, you know, some arrows in the box in a circle or something.

[10:43] And they were like, oh, I get it now.

[10:45] And I remember that feeling, just being like, oh, that’s super. And again, I don’t want to make up some fancy narrative. All that meant was, I did it again.

[10:53] You know, I was like, I’ll try that in the next meeting and I’ll Try that in the next meeting. And a client said,

[10:58] a client that was at the meeting and their spouse wasn’t at the meeting called after the meeting and said, hey, that thing you drew,

[11:07] could you.

[11:08] I. I think it was like scan and email it to me.

[11:12] And I was like. And when I remember specifically thinking,

[11:16] when I saw it go out sort of digitally, I saw it go out, I thought, I just had the thought I could send this to other people. So there no grand conclusion, just I could send this to other people.

[11:26] So I did. I sent it to a few other people. And then I started.

[11:29] Anytime I’d get a question more than once.

[11:33] So anytime I get a question from a client more than once,

[11:36] I would write the answer and I would send it out as a new. I would say, hey, a few people have asked this. And I would send it out to my 17 people on my newsletter or whatever.

[11:47] And I would also include a.

[11:49] A diagram trying. I didn’t know what to call them, just a diagram trying to explain it.

[11:53] And.

[11:54] And then one day I was like, huh, I wonder if I just. This was like when blogs first became a thing. Yeah,

[12:01] I put em. I started putting up on it. I started this little website. It was first, it was called Tara. I haven’t told very many people this. It was called the Emotional Gap.

[12:09] Tara Bansal: Huh.

[12:09] Carl Richards: Cause I was trying to solve this problem of buying high, selling low. Again, I was in an investment centric world. Investment returns, investor returns, you know, like. And I was like, the only reason that could be is because of emotion.

[12:22] And I call it Emotional Gap. And then I was like, actually maybe I’ll just use behavior.

[12:27] And so that’s why the blog was called Behavior Gap. And I started posting them there. And one thing led to another.

[12:35] Tara Bansal: Wow, it’s been a pretty phenomenal. I mean, to get where you are. What motivated you to go out on your own after the brokerage firm?

[12:47] Carl Richards: It’s so like all these decisions are. And I’m going to just try to be super honest about them because none of them were smart, none of them were grand plans. None of them were thoughtful.

[12:58] They were just so. I literally. I wanted access to a specific type of investment. I could not get inside the brokerage world. I wanted access to dimensional fund advisors. I couldn’t get access to DFA in the bro.

[13:10] I had the copy of Fortune or Money Ma, whatever one that said how the real smart money invests and had a picture of David Booth and Rex Syncvist on the front.

[13:19] And I had it in my top drawer at the brokerage firm. So every time I opened it, I saw it and I was always clam. I think part of this was I was always trying to fill some hole in my own self esteem where I was like.

[13:35] And there was another piece of it that was, that was like I always was process driven. Like I wanted to understand. I remember going around to the senior advisors and saying, how do you make investment decisions?

[13:47] And I’d get answers, like, have a hunch, buy a bunch. Like nobody could tell me what the real job was. But then there was this magazine that said how they’re really smart people.

[13:54] Part of that was I wanted my grandma to feel good about me. Right. I didn’t go to law school, so there was part of that, that, that I was looking to fill a self esteem issue.

[14:06] Another part of it was I was looking for, I was trying to find a process I could defend.

[14:11] I wanted a defensible investment process. So I left with four kids,

[14:16] you know, no insurance, like to get access to demand. That doesn’t make a lot of sense.

[14:22] And then one of the side reasons I, I found out later was so I could do public work and have ownership of that intellectual property. Right. Like as I started putting these sketches up online,

[14:33] I couldn’t have done that at the big brokerage firm. So that’s why I left.

[14:38] You know, one last thing. I also wanted to be able to call myself a fiduciary.

[14:42] I remember that being important.

[14:43] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[14:44] Carl Richards: That was because I was super discouraged.

[14:46] It was like one of the greatest disappointment of my career that when I could finally call myself a fiduciary, nobody cared.

[14:54] You know, it turns out like clients, clients don’t.

[14:57] Tara Bansal: Because they were smart once they know you. Yeah, yeah.

[14:59] Carl Richards: They’re like, well, don’t you do that anyway? Like, yeah, I’m like, yeah, it’s a good point.

[15:03] Tara Bansal: So anyway, do you remember what year you got your cfp?

[15:08] Carl Richards: Ah,

[15:09] it’s not on the wall behind me.

[15:12] No. I mean I could go in and look, but I was still. I remember I got made fun of because. So it probably would have been 98 or 99.

[15:22] Tara Bansal: Okay.

[15:23] Carl Richards: Because the people at the big brokerage firm were like, what the. Why are you wasting your time with that? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[15:28] Tara Bansal: I feel like that’s a common. And then when you decided to sell your firm, what motivated you then?

[15:36] Carl Richards: Yeah, again,

[15:38] you know, like a, A bunch of things that happened.

[15:42] You know,

[15:45] again, with no grand plan. The, the New York Times email where the editor asked me if I would be willing to do these for him and I was like, sure.

[15:53] Of course, I knew enough to say yes to that.

[15:56] And then a year into that, a major publisher asked if I’d do a book. And I. I again, was just sort of like, I don’t even know what that mean.

[16:05] I literally replied to that email with an email that said, hey, I’m just a kid from the hills in Utah. I don’t even know what these words mean. Like,

[16:12] explain this to me. And.

[16:14] Tara Bansal: And was your first book the one page financial plan?

[16:16] Carl Richards: The first book was the Behavior Gap. Both of those books, the one page plan and Behavior, were with Penguin Portfolio.

[16:23] Tara Bansal: Okay.

[16:23] Carl Richards: So to get a chance. And there’s nothing. There’s no repeatable.

[16:28] There’s nothing to learn from this except sort of like,

[16:33] play in traffic, follow what you love. Like, these were all just series of decisions that I couldn’t not do,

[16:40] you know? Like, it wasn’t.

[16:42] I never said.

[16:44] I remember on my bookshelf,

[16:47] I had three of Seth Godin’s books,

[16:50] and the portfolio logo is the archer shooting an arrow at the sun, right?

[16:57] And I remember walking past that once and saying to myself,

[17:00] gosh, that logo’s cool.

[17:03] Like, that was the grand. That was the grand plan. There was no, like, goal.

[17:07] I didn’t even say. I think I might have said in my head,

[17:11] man, if I ever wrote a book, it’d be cool if that. That logo’s cool. Like, that’s the. That was it. Not like, I’m going to write a book. No, no.

[17:17] Manifesting nothing. And then one day when I got my book and I put it on the shelf, I put it next to Seth’s books, and I was like, oh, my gosh,

[17:25] it’s the same logo.

[17:28] So the same thing happened with selling the firm was like, I was never planned on doing it. In fact, I was intent on never, ever doing that.

[17:38] And the book was about to come out. It wasn’t out yet, but I was getting all these speaking requests, and I was clearly enjoying it a lot.

[17:47] And I was forced to make a decision in my mind at least.

[17:51] I had these clients I loved that deserved the planning they had been getting.

[17:58] Could I still provide that and do this other thing? I was going to have to say no to something.

[18:03] And I came home one day and told. I started to get offers because people were sort of like.

[18:08] They kind of wanted me to come work for the firm and be a little bit of like a,

[18:12] you know, whatever public face of the firm.

[18:17] I had two different offers, and I told my wife, Corey, that,

[18:21] like, hey, I’m gonna just say notable thieves and she said,

[18:25] hey, we’ve always thought of this as a security blanket. Maybe it’s become an anchor.

[18:31] And I was like, wow, that’s really weird,

[18:33] you know, like,

[18:35] so I, that’s, that’s how it happened is I, I said yes to one of them and really glad I did. They have taken massively good care of my clients. And so that’s how I decided.

[18:47] Tara Bansal: Very cool.

[18:49] What?

[18:50] I listened to your podcast, and I listen and recommend it and talk about it all the time. The 50 fires.

[18:58] And one question you always ask, and I don’t feel like I know the answer, so I apologize if you have. But what’s your, your first memory of money?

[19:08] Carl Richards: Yeah, it’s, it’s. I’ve been asked that not as many times as I, as you would think now, but two or three different people have,

[19:17] have asked because of 50 fires.

[19:21] And I, I, I’m,

[19:22] I’m, again, I’m trying to be really careful about making up stories in our own minds about narratives. But my sense is, my belief is I have two that come up.

[19:34] One was just a feeling,

[19:37] like, my earliest feeling around money, my kind of earliest memory of money. Is there not being enough?

[19:44] Right. That it was scary that there was, you know, that.

[19:49] And I don’t think that was communicated by anybody. I don’t, I don’t think anybody, certainly nobody did anything wrong.

[19:55] But I just remember, I think it goes back to my parents divorce when I was 8.

[20:01] I just remember my mom always kind of trying to. And again, I don’t. I mean, I had a ski pass at Snowbird, for heaven’s sakes. Like, it’s not a, it’s not like a,

[20:12] you know, there wasn’t a lot of money, but I still had a ski pass. That was interesting to me.

[20:17] We had a hard time staying in the neighborhood that we landed in because of money. And I, and so I remember that. I remember being conflicted by it. And then the other thing I remember is even before that,

[20:31] I remember at the golf course here in Park City,

[20:36] I. We used to go dive.

[20:39] Literally, like, with goggles. We would dive in the lakes. And this is when we were like six and seven. We, we could. I mean, it’s so crazy. Back then, we’d just leave on our bikes in the morning every day of the summer, and we wouldn’t come back until somebody yelled Dukes of Hazzard was on.

[20:52] So we were just out all day, and we would dive in the golf course and we’d gather balls, and then we’d sell them at the, at the tee.

[20:59] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[21:00] Carl Richards: And I had a bunch of money and we were at. We had this condo there. This is back when Park City was just a sleepy little mountain town.

[21:08] And I had lost some change in the couch.

[21:11] It’s like a quarter.

[21:13] And I tipped the couch upside down and I tore the bottom of the couch open and I reached in to find the quarter and I pulled out a diamond earring.

[21:22] And we, we. We let everybody know who’d stayed. Like, as I recall, it was.

[21:26] We somehow had control of this condo. Whether it was our condo or my dad just managed it or something, but everybody know. Nobody said anything. So we. I. My mom put it in a safety deposit box.

[21:37] So I remember that because I tried to spend that like at least a hundred times. I was like, gimme that diamond ring. I’m gonna buy a new bike or give me.

[21:45] She never did it. Ended up paying for my wedding ring, Corey’s wedding ring, and a watch for each of us because it just.

[21:53] When we went to trade it in, that’s how valuable it was. So I remember that. I remember like digging through the couch.

[21:59] Tara Bansal: And diving for golf balls and selling those.

[22:04] Carl Richards: I mean, yeah, for sure, for sure.

[22:07] But no, yeah, yeah. More though, I remember the.

[22:10] And I don’t know if I’ve made this up,

[22:12] but talking to my mom and my dad, I haven’t made it up, but yeah, I remember this sense of scarcity, the sense of.

[22:22] And also like this weird juxtaposition that I had a. And back then, ski passes were nothing. You know what I mean? Like a season pass for a local was nothing.

[22:29] But the fact that I had a ski pass at the best resort in the world and there was a sense that we didn’t have enough is a very interesting dilemma for me that I’m still trying to work it through.

[22:41] Tara Bansal: Hmm. I could throw out a bunch of guesses at that, but. But that’s something you valued. I don’t know how much your family valued, but for how active you were, that was a good.

[22:56] I could just imagine your mom be like, this is a good place away for him to channel that.

[23:03] Carl Richards: For sure. Those mountains in a very real way that. That specific area of this mountain range saved my life more than once. So it was really important to me. So, yeah, there is an alignment there, but it’s still interesting.

[23:18] Tara Bansal: How would you describe what you do now?

[23:26] Carl Richards: I think I just notice things in the world and try to communicate them. And the things I primarily notice are how to have a more meaningful life. Like I’m. I.

[23:42] I think of my Work as an adventure journal.

[23:45] That’s not a self help, not a prescriptive advice, none of that. I just think of it as an adventure journal. Like, hey, I’m on this adventure.

[23:55] If you are on a similar adventure, you may find the fact that there’s a spring here. On hot days, I’ve noticed there’s water,

[24:02] but if you’re not hot and you’re not thirsty and you’re not there,

[24:05] don’t worry about it. So I think largely what I do now is notice.

[24:12] Try to notice my own struggles and problems and challenges.

[24:20] Wrestle with them a lot, sometimes for more than a decade. Like, I have examples of sketches that have been like a decade single words that I’ve worked on for a decade, which I just love.

[24:32] It drives me crazy, but I love when it happens.

[24:36] So I think it’s trying to notice things in the world about how to live a more meaningful life.

[24:43] It’s largely through the entry point of money.

[24:47] But money is not the important part. It’s just the entry point.

[24:50] Tara Bansal: The entry point.

[24:50] Carl Richards: And then share that with the world. And I’m just lucky that we live in a time when it’s easy to share and there are enough people that just out of strict odds,

[25:01] there are enough people that if you share enough,

[25:03] you’ll find a group of people that say, hey, I like that, and give you permission to continue to do it in various forms.

[25:12] Tara Bansal: I’m really curious. I feel like you juggle a lot.

[25:15] I mean, you have your podcast, you have the one with Michael, you have the, you know, society of advice. You have. How do you manage and juggle all the different things that you do?

[25:34] Carl Richards: I don’t, I don’t. It’s. It’s interesting because I feel like I’m saying no a lot.

[25:41] Like I’ve got so many more things I want to do than I have time.

[25:47] And so what. I’ve.

[25:49] What lately? And I. It’s only been. Lately that I’ve been getting slightly better at. This is like really trying to get rid of things that are not.

[25:59] It’s not. Look,

[26:01] okay, the. The easy stuff on the list is things that I don’t like doing.

[26:05] Like, that’s the easy stuff on the list.

[26:07] Like,

[26:08] and we’re getting closer. I. I actually kind of have a goal and today has reinforced it. I’ve had.

[26:15] I. I mean, I’m so deeply grateful for.

[26:18] Sorry.

[26:20] The opportunity to have conversations like this. That there are people like you that care enough. And I’ve had two or three of them today,

[26:29] and each one of them I’m just like. I hang up. I’m just like, I can’t believe this person took that kind of time to be so thoughtful.

[26:37] And I. When I’m in one of those days, I’m like, this is all I want to do.

[26:41] And so I’m literally like, I don’t ever want to see a calendar again other than, like, tell me where I’m supposed to be. I don’t ever want to touch an email again.

[26:48] I have sort of a goal, and we’re getting close.

[26:51] I don’t want to touch a keyboard.

[26:56] So I. Number one, I try to get rid of things that I. I don’t like doing. Number two,

[27:02] I try to get rid of things that are literally a waste of time. And I’m not very good at this yet. I’m getting better, but, like, checking Instagram or checking ESPN or checking the New York Times, those don’t do me any good.

[27:12] So I try to get rid of those.

[27:13] And then the last thing, which I think is really hard, is I have to start saying no. And I just did. I just said no to something I deeply want to do.

[27:21] Um,

[27:23] yeah. In fact, I can tell you we held retreats at the house this year,

[27:27] and next year we’re gonna. We held six this year. Next year we’re gonna just hold four, plus a special one for a special group of people.

[27:34] But so it. When we narrowed it down to four,

[27:37] I was like, oh, no. Cause this year we did a women’s retreat.

[27:40] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I wanted to ask about that.

[27:42] Carl Richards: Yeah, yeah. Which they kindly allowed me to come to, but it was hosted. Co hosted by Danika. And it was amazing. And my wife and Danika co hosted and then just allowed me to come.

[27:54] And we loved it.

[27:56] But we’ve been getting this suggestion for two or three years to do a couple’s retreat where it’s like the financial planner and their spouse or partner,

[28:04] and not the one you and I have both seen where it’s like the spouse goes to yoga or fly fishing.

[28:11] Like, why?

[28:11] No, we’re in together. Like, together. And the goal, the request seems to be like,

[28:18] we just need to talk a little bit about how to navigate uncertainty and the kind of the chaos of the business that spills into the family. And we’d love to hear you and Corey talk.

[28:26] So we want to do that, and we’re scared to death to do it.

[28:29] And that’s always a good sign for Corey and I were like, my wife’s name is Corey. It was like,

[28:33] okay, we’re scary. So I had to say no to the women’s retreat. Even though I really. We only have room for four retreats,

[28:40] so we’re going to do a couples retreat instead. So that’s an example of something really good, if not great.

[28:48] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[28:49] Carl Richards: That I had to say no to. So I practice that. That’s how I juggle things.

[28:53] I’m not very good. I’m not very good at it, but I’m working on it.

[28:57] Tara Bansal: And I want. Because my listeners are primarily female financial advisors.

[29:02] Carl Richards: What.

[29:03] Tara Bansal: Where did the. Wow. Where did the women’s retreat come from? Was that just there was requests for it or how did that come about?

[29:12] Carl Richards: Yeah, I had always wanted to do it because my impression. So this is the Society of Advice.

[29:18] You know, there’s 500 or so members.

[29:23] 200 probably attend the 150 to 200 attend the weekly call or the monthly call live. And then.

[29:29] So we were starting to do retreats just for members of the Society of Advice. And we had repeated requests of like, have you ever thought of doing a women’s retreat at.

[29:39] But to be honest, not as many requests as I thought we would have.

[29:43] And so we even asked a couple times and we always got a mixed reply of like, I would love that. And we got replies from other women advisors who were like, no, it’s.

[29:52] I’m used to it. Like, it’s.

[29:54] So I didn’t know what to make of that, but we’d always wanted to try it.

[30:00] My wife is also,

[30:02] I think,

[30:03] pretty gifted at creating space for people and so I knew that would work. And I think really highly of Danika and having her involved was great.

[30:13] So that’s where it came from.

[30:15] Tara Bansal: Okay, and what, what were some of your takeaways from that retreat for? Like, differences or.

[30:24] Carl Richards: Yeah, just. No, thanks.

[30:25] Tara Bansal: With women.

[30:26] Carl Richards: Thanks for asking. And let me be really clear. Like, it feels really odd that it was a women’s retreat and I was there. Um,

[30:33] but we asked like, should I be there? And people were like, well, no, that’s part of the reason we’re. Yeah, coming. Um, so it.

[30:43] There’s a couple things that were really interesting to me. First of all, and I can’t.

[30:48] I. I want to say this without it sounding stereotypical, but there was a lot of talking and even like, like when I picked people up,

[30:56] I rent a sprinter van and drive over. This is me driving over, drive over to pick everybody up from the hotel. And in the mixed groups that ride back to the house, the very first ride by the house is often pretty quiet cuz people don’t know Each other.

[31:09] Right. They’re just, but in that group it was from the jump, you know, like lots of conversation which I thought was really cool.

[31:16] I think again,

[31:20] I, I in no way want to sound cliche, but I think it’s really a reasonable thing to,

[31:26] to have expected that we were able to get.

[31:30] The whole goal of the retreats is to get deep as quick as we can and sometimes that takes some work. Like we gotta, there’s gotta work and get people in and you know, some questions.

[31:42] But with the women’s retreat it was just boom, like we were, we were right in there which was,

[31:48] which was amazing.

[31:52] The thoughtfulness of,

[31:55] of support,

[31:56] inter support. So there’s a, sometimes there’s a slightly like me as the hub and each person is the spoke because they don’t know each other in. But in this group it was a lot of spoke to spoke, you know, like immediate support and help.

[32:16] So those are some of the things I know we left right after for a five day trip up in the mountains with my family and it was, it was just my wife and my three daughters.

[32:26] My son didn’t come and I can tell you,

[32:29] driving on the trip I was literally like, hey, I’m gonna put my earphones in.

[32:34] Because it was a lot of talking, which I, I, I, I was super thrilled about, but I needed some quiet. So anyway, it was, it was,

[32:43] it was really, really fun. I was super rewarding. One of the best things I’ve done in my career.

[32:50] Tara Bansal: How do you, how can we make financial planning more inviting and supportive for women to thrive and to join as planners? Yes.

[33:02] Carl Richards: Okay. Okay. Not as clients. I mean that’s a, that’s an equally interesting question.

[33:06] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I, I totally agree and I.

[33:10] Carl Richards: Don’T, I don’t look, I, again, like I’m hesitant because who am I, I, I, I don’t know. But my, my sen is actively like intentionally going out of your way. Like I love that like that language is super interesting, like out of your way to draw to create space for any unique pers.

[33:43] And it’s relatively unique given the makeup of our industry. Any unique perspective.

[33:49] And I think the way you do that and I’ve, I’ve noticed this, I even noticed this over the last couple of days,

[33:56] you know, being on podcasts that might be co hosted by a male and a female advisor and I’ll notice the need to actively include,

[34:08] you know, and ask and draw in.

[34:12] I noticed this last week with a,

[34:19] actually it doesn’t really intentionally go out of your way to ask like hey, what do you think about that or. I’m dealing with this situation. How would you handle it?

[34:31] And I want to make a really,

[34:34] a point that’s really important to me.

[34:36] I think intentionally creating space for voices that have been underrepresented in our industry is important on its own.

[34:48] It’s important on its own.

[34:49] I.

[34:50] For me, that’s not the most interesting and important reason to do it.

[34:54] The most interesting, important reason for me to do it. Again, I don’t want to. I want to be clear here. It’s an important reason on its own,

[35:00] but the most interesting, important reason for it is because it’s so interesting.

[35:06] Right. Like, we. Getting.

[35:09] We’re not going to solve as an industry, we’re not going to solve the problems we have not been able to solve with the same voices.

[35:18] Right. So getting. It’s. It’s what makes life and work magic. It’s what gives rich context is like new perspectives that I haven’t heard before. Like, I.

[35:29] So I’m not asking, I’m not creating space for,

[35:33] you know, I’m on a panel and there’s one woman and four men on the panel. And I’m going to actively look for ways to make sure that the woman on the panel gets more equal or more time.

[35:45] And I’m going to keep track of it. Okay, fine. That’s fine. But I’m actually asking because I’m really honestly curious because the perspective I get is something that often has not occurred to my mind.

[35:57] And this is the same. This is of any population that’s been underrepresented. Suddenly I’m like, oh, my gosh, I’ve never thought of that.

[36:05] That’s so helpful.

[36:07] So that’s like I was on a panel or actually just the two of us with Christi Archuleta at shift one year. And I selfishly, I wanted to listen to her.

[36:19] Right. You know what I mean? Like, I was learning more from her. So I think if we can just intentionally realize that,

[36:27] A, it’s a good idea on its own,

[36:30] B, it makes us better individually. It makes us better as an industry. It makes us. We could maybe solve problems that need new and innovative ideas that the same old ideas aren’t going to solve.

[36:44] Tara Bansal: Thank you. Any, like, actionable things we. You feel like we can do?

[36:54] Carl Richards: Yeah. I mean, sure, we can look to hire, we can look to promote. We can ask questions. I asked this question two weeks ago on a speed like, is there, you know,

[37:07] who else is speaking at this,

[37:09] at this conference? Is there a way I can take my slot? This is A question I asked two weeks ago, like, can I take my slot?

[37:16] And is there somebody from your organization that would like to be in a moderated Q and A with me?

[37:24] So they’re on the stage with me, like, so, yeah, we can.

[37:27] Tara Bansal: Sharing the spotlight and sharing.

[37:29] Carl Richards: Sharing the spotlight. But again, I, I, look, I don’t want to sound too altruistic. Like, that’s, that, that is a good idea on its own. But I’m mainly doing it because it’s so much more interesting for me.

[37:40] So, yeah, I think we actively look for it. We encourage, we watch our language. Like, I had a sketch once that said it was about peer pressure and it had like,

[37:51] herd of sheep investors. It was 3 diagram, 3, 3 circle Venn diagram, herd of sheep investors. And I had put the last one said teenage girls.

[38:01] And it, my editor at the time, my, my editor’s editor was female and she was like, that was great.

[38:08] So it was all fine. But in hindsight, I’ve now changed it. It’s in the book now.

[38:12] Tara Bansal: I know it says teenagers.

[38:14] Carl Richards: Just, it says teenagers. And I’m not ashamed about the idea of changing that because I have three teenage daughters and I, or at the time had three teenage daughters. I wouldn’t want even a hint of them being less capable of making financial decisions.

[38:29] So I think we pay attention to that. And where we make mistakes,

[38:32] we take correction, we listen to it, we decide how to adjust it, we make room for all of us to make mistakes,

[38:40] and we make room for all of us to provide feedback on those mistakes.

[38:45] Tara Bansal: We’re almost out of time. I would love just if you have a favorite book, podcast or resource lately that you would like to recommend.

[38:56] Carl Richards: So that’s,

[38:58] I mean, here’s the challenge.

[39:02] I don’t know that it’s,

[39:04] I, I,

[39:06] I’m deeply right now into spending long days or large chunks of time outside with my new hunting dog that I’m training.

[39:20] The dog’s not the important part, actually, the hunting’s not the important part. The dog and long walks. So I’ve gotten deep into a lot of, like, books around Western. I’m reading a amazing book right now called Buffalo for the Brokenhearted,

[39:33] for the Broken Heart. And it’s just about a buffalo rancher in Montana. Like, so I think maybe what I would, what that points to, to me is I’m just awakening to something that I can now see there were sparks of 20 years ago,

[39:52] and I have jammed it down and crammed it down and said, don’t pay attention to, you know, be responsible and I think I would use podcasts or books or magazines.

[40:04] You know, like, what is it that you notice yourself picking up when you’re not paying attention?

[40:13] You know, like, what is it that you’re like, oh, that’s so interesting. I keep reading books about gardening or landscape design or.

[40:22] So my specific recommendations I don’t think will be particularly helpful right now. Cause every extra hour I am, I’m trying to think about how to have a better relationship with this dog and the western landscape that I live in.

[40:36] Tara Bansal: But that’s a statement in itself, so.

[40:37] Carl Richards: That’S great for sure.

[40:39] Tara Bansal: So pay attention, I feel like, to what you’re drawn to and follow it.

[40:45] Carl Richards: Yeah, give, I call this Dancing with Dragons. Like, give yourself permission instead of cramming it down.

[40:52] You know, like, when are you going to be responsible? Don’t pay attention to such things. Like you’ve probably spent 10, 15, 20, 30 years saying like,

[41:00] no, no, no, no, no. But I think like if you go to a concert or you go to a sporting event or you go to an art museum, or you go to the, and you notice something that’s just a teeny little, teeny little.

[41:11] You’ve even forgotten what it’s like to feel the spark. If you’re like me,

[41:15] there’s a teeny little spark. Like just be like, I don’t have to make any major decisions. I don’t have to blow my life up. I don’t have to quit my job.

[41:22] I can just dance with that a little bit. Right? Like I can just notice it and pay attention to it. Give it to give yourself permission to explore that a little bit.

[41:30] Because I think that’s, that’s it. It’s actually a lot of the work we do with clients. Like give yourself permission to do the same things you’re trying to give your clients permission to do.

[41:39] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I, I agree with that. Do you have a self care ritual that keeps you grounded or that you love? Just something you.

[41:47] Carl Richards: Yeah,

[41:48] yeah,

[41:51] for sure. The,

[41:53] the,

[41:55] the landscape sort of garden of our house.

[42:00] These are all things I planted.

[42:02] Like there, there was like we had to tear.

[42:04] There was nothing growing around this house. And I love going out there now and being like, oh, I, I, I literally do a lap around the rock wall we built.

[42:17] I check on every, sometimes I, I like, hey, you’re doing great today.

[42:21] Tara Bansal: Talk to him.

[42:21] Carl Richards: Yeah, yeah.

[42:23] That I love. And then the other thing that’s been really,

[42:26] really unplanned and impressive in terms of its impact on my life is what an animal requires of you,

[42:35] you know, like, if you’re gonna do it right.

[42:37] Like, I can’t go train this dog.

[42:41] If I’m impatient or tired,

[42:44] I can only because it doesn’t work.

[42:47] And so it’s that to me, like, time with.

[42:51] Because my kids are all out of the house, like, this used to be, like. Right. But time with the kids, time with the family,

[42:57] time on my bike, on the trails,

[43:00] time with my feet. Literally, with. No, you know, just my bare feet in the soil, working on the yard. That. That’s the kind of stuff that I focus on.

[43:07] Tara Bansal: Very nice. What’s something bringing you joy right now?

[43:13] Carl Richards: Yeah, these conversations.

[43:15] Like, I. I literally am just, like, it’s so amazing to be it. To have permission to do something you care so deeply about. So there’s, like, having these kind of conversations is bringing me lots of joy.

[43:32] So thanks for doing it, Tara.

[43:33] Tara Bansal: Oh, thank you. And just thank you, Carl, for all your wisdom, all you share and just your generosity and even coming and being here, you know.

[43:44] And I know I will talk about your book, and that’s a side thing, but anything else you want to share or a question you wish I had asked?

[43:58] Carl Richards: I mean, other than, like, to your listeners specifically, like, I. I can’t really even imagine, even though I’ve heard the stories,

[44:06] you know, like, this isn’t the easiest place to find your footing.

[44:11] Um,

[44:12] and.

[44:13] But to the degree that you can, like, please don’t give up on that little. Like, that little dream, you know, that little glimmer of like. No, no, I actually want to.

[44:22] I. I know that there. There’s going to be voices saying, that’s not the way we do it here.

[44:26] Like, maybe you listen to those voices as a. As you need to for a little while, sort of like. But in the back of your mind, you’re like, the moment I have.

[44:34] Like, and then find those little spots where you can start to carve out space for that dream.

[44:40] And maybe you can say, I’m doing the dream now. Awesome. I’m just saying, either way,

[44:45] like, don’t give up hope on it. Don’t let them. Oh, what does David White say about that? He says, don’t let them smother something simple. Those other voices, don’t let that.

[44:54] Don’t let them smother something simple,

[44:57] because we need the work that you are doing,

[45:01] and the only way it’s gonna happen is if you can keep the courage and the strength to keep sort of not letting them smother something simple. So that’s it.

[45:12] Tara Bansal: Wonderful. Thank you.

[45:14] Carl Richards: Cheers, Tara. That was super fun.

[45:16] Tara Bansal: That was very fun.

[45:18] There were so many things in this conversation that I loved and wanted to highlight. I will try to keep this brief.

[45:26] So what stood out to me in this conversation with Carl was the unexpected beauty of where life can take us.

[45:34] His whole career began when he answered a newspaper ad that he thought was for a security guard job,

[45:41] only to realize it was for securities.

[45:44] From there,

[45:45] each quote accident led him somewhere new.

[45:50] Carl reminds us to pay attention to the odd little things that brings us joy,

[45:56] even if they feel like guilty pleasures or seem unrelated to our work.

[46:01] Those sparks are clues to what makes us us and makes us authentic.

[46:07] Some of my favorite lessons from Carl are,

[46:10] and he says these often is one Be who you are and go all the way.

[46:16] Especially as women, we often lose ourselves in people pleasing.

[46:20] His reminder is to stay true to our own voices.

[46:25] Two to be a better advisor.

[46:28] Be a better human.

[46:30] Model the life we want for our clients by prioritizing what matters most family,

[46:36] joy and meaning.

[46:39] 3.

[46:39] Don’t give up on your dream. Do it your way,

[46:43] even if it’s unconventional. Keep carving space for it.

[46:47] And four to lift each other up,

[46:50] Carl challenged us to intentionally invite more women and underrepresented voices into the room.

[46:57] It’s not just good for equity, it makes the work and world richer, more interesting and more innovative.

[47:06] And finally, I love Carl’s framing of money as simply the entry point.

[47:12] His real work is noticing.

[47:15] Noticing life,

[47:16] meaning, struggle and beauty.

[47:18] I love how he talks about what he does as being an adventure journal and sharing that with others so we all can live more fully.

[47:28] Carl has a new book coming out filled with his sketches, 101 sketches and a launch party is happening with Ron Lieber of the New York Times on September 30th.

[47:41] I encourage you to check it out. More details will be in the show notes.

[47:45] Check it out not only for the sketches themselves, but for the mission behind the book to help more of us talk about money in ways that matter.

[47:56] For me, every interaction with Carl reinforces that it’s possible to live with intention,

[48:02] generosity and courage.

[48:05] And that’s the kind of role model I want in my life.

[48:09] Thank you for listening to her life, her practice, her way.

[48:13] A podcast for and about female financial advisors.

[48:17] I truly hope you found something valuable and encouraging in today’s episode.

[48:22] If you did, I’d be so grateful if you’d take a moment to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

[48:30] It helps other phenomenal women in our field find this space.

[48:34] And if you know another advisor who would benefit from these conversations or from the kind of support I offer through coaching,

[48:42] please send this episode to her.

[48:45] If you’re curious about working with me as your coach or interested in being on the podcast, I’d love to hear from you.

[48:53] You can find more details and reach out to me on the contact page of my website.

[48:59] Her Life,

[49:00] her practice herway.com no spaces, no underlines, just the word straight in a row.

[49:08] Until next time, keep building a life and practice. You truly love.

Resources & Links Mentioned in this episode

Carl’s newest book — 101 Sketches That Will Change the Way You Think About Money

Here is the link to pre-order Carl’s newest book on Amazon

Here is the link to place a bulk order of Carl’s book. Listeners can save an additional 5% by using the code: YourMoney5 at checkout.

 

Carl’s Book Launch Party Event Details

When: Tuesday, September 30, 2025

Time: 6–7 p.m. Eastern

Where: Live on Zoom

🔗 Join Zoom directly: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81637651645
📅 Add to calendar: https://addcal.io/e/w96yhcuhxgb4

 

Carl Richards’ website https://behaviorgap.com/ — home of his sketches, writing, and projects

The Society of Advice – https://www.thesocietyofadvice.com — Carl’s community for advisors

50 Fires Podcast — Carl’s show exploring money, meaning, and conversations that matter

Carl’s first book – The Behavior Gap: Simple Ways to Stop Doing Dumb Things with Money

The One-Page Financial Plan: A Simple Way to Be Smart About Your Money — his follow-up book

Ron Lieber — New York Times columnist, mentioned in connection with Carl’s book launch

Buffalo for the Broken Heart by Dan O’Brien — the book Carl is currently reading and loving

Carl Richards started The Sketch Guy column in The New York Times from the hills of Utah, crafting clear, relatable insights about money with just card stock and a Sharpie. The column ran weekly for a decade. This journey began when Carl applied for what he thought was a job as a “security guard,” only to find out the ad actually said “securities.” That slight misstep sparked a lifelong dedication to reshaping how we think about money.

Since then, Carl has become a Certified Financial Planner™, built and sold a successful investment firm, and spoken at financial and investment events worldwide—from Australia to South Africa, the UK, and major economic centers across Europe, Canada, and the United States. His bestsellers, The Behavior Gap and The One-Page Financial Plan, have been translated into over ten languages and continue to resonate globally.

Through his daily podcast, Behavior Gap Radio, which now has over 1,000 episodes and over one million downloads, Carl shares new perspectives on aligning our resources with what truly matters. His latest audio project, 50 Fires, backed by executive producers Chip and Joanna Gaines, explores the intersections of money and meaning with guests like Pete Holmes, David Whyte, Krista Tippett, and his favorite guest by far, his wife, Cori.

Carl founded The Society of Advice, a community of financial planners dedicated to the craft of advice. They gather for a monthly online workshop and frequent retreats in Park City, Utah.

In 2025, Carl will release a new book that, true to form, will be unlike anything seen in the personal finance section—and you better believe there will be sketches (97 of them, to be exact).

When he’s not exploring ideas about money, Carl, a Wilderness First Responder, can be found navigating Utah’s high mountain ridges on foot, skis, or bike. Married to Cori since 1995, they have four kids, whom they consider their best friends.

Carl’s Social media links: LinkedIn, X, Instagram