[00:17] Tara Bansal: Welcome to her life, her practice, her way. A podcast for and about women in financial planning.

[00:25] I’m Tara Conti Bansal, a financial planner and life coach.

[00:29] And I believe that when women thrive in this profession, we all win.

[00:34] As women, we’re often very good at taking care of everyone else and not nearly as good at asking ourselves what we need or what we really want.

[00:45] Through honest conversations, we’ll explore what it means to slow down,

[00:50] trust ourselves and build a life and practice that feels true to who we are.

[00:57] There isn’t one right way. There’s only your way.

[01:01] Welcome,

[01:02] this is Tara Conti Bantzel and I am beyond thrilled to have Liz Hand with me here today.

[01:11] She is the owner of a co owner of Pleasant wealth in Canton, Ohio and she also has her own coaching business, Liz Hand Coaching.

[01:24] I got to know Liz through Limitless.

[01:27] She was on our show last season. But today is special because we are going to talk about Liz’s new book,

[01:37] Money is a Mirror.

[01:39] And I was honored to get a pre read and read it and I mean I, I think the world of Liz and this exceeded all of my expectations.

[01:52] So I just felt like it was so.

[01:56] I could relate to so much and so juicy and so easy to read that I know I’m going to be recommending it to everyone.

[02:06] So here we are. Just thrilled to have her here.

[02:12] Liz. What?

[02:14] Tell us how this started, if you don’t mind. Like, how did you come up with the idea of writing a book and this book in particular?

[02:23] Yeah.

[02:26] Liz Hand: Well, I just want to say first I want to acknowledge that that introduction felt so heartening for me. It’s so fun to hear when your work impacts somebody else, especially someone in my field doing very similar things in the world and caring so much about not only our clients but like the financial planning community.

[02:45] So thank you, Tara.

[02:46] Tara Bansal: Oh, you’re so welcome.

[02:48] Liz Hand: Um, but yes, I never set out to be an author that was not like,

[02:53] you know, as financial planners we’re fairly goal oriented. That was never on any kind of 2, 5, 10 year list of things I wanted to pursue.

[03:05] Um,

[03:06] a lot came together for me in 2020 when I hired a marketing coach and I actually may have shared some of this story on the last time we were here, but I’ll take it a little different direction.

[03:17] The marketing coach was helping me produce a essentially like an abbreviated financial planning program where I and the marketing behind it. And in the process of talking to her and writing some of the copy for it,

[03:32] I was noticing that there is kind of a framework of a person that I was speaking to.

[03:38] And I called it the Midwestern money mindset.

[03:42] And after our engagement concluded, the copy coach. I just asked if I could have some more of her time and put it all on paper for the first time in an abbreviated way.

[03:55] Just what I saw. And her response to me kind of caught me off guard. She was like, this is really deep. Like, depending on how far you want to go with this,

[04:05] this is really juicy content. This. I think this will resonate with a lot of people.

[04:09] And I had a series of conversations where I’d, like, start to hint at these ideas and get this similar type of feedback of, like, I think you’re onto something. I think this is a map that somebody could follow pretty closely.

[04:23] Um,

[04:24] and then I’m also a big fan of Carl Richards. You know, his. His.

[04:30] I start off the book with a story with Carl Richards, and I end the book with a story of Carl Richards.

[04:35] Um,

[04:37] so when I was in his coaching program back in 2023,

[04:43] at the end of the year, he does the one thing,

[04:47] which is a process of getting you to really distill what’s the one thing that’s going to set that would completely change your life if you focused on just that thing next year.

[04:57] And I decided it was time for me to actually write it out in its full potential. I didn’t know what that meant, but I was gonna write it down.

[05:06] And so I started writing it down. And there were a couple of other things that popped right at that time, too, in my mindset work of just seeing myself in a different light.

[05:17] And right then, I was like, oh,

[05:20] this is a book.

[05:21] And I kid you not,

[05:23] like, 60% of the book I wrote in about a week’s time.

[05:27] Tara Bansal: Wow.

[05:28] Liz Hand: Back in December of 2024.

[05:31] Tara Bansal: Oh, my God.

[05:31] Liz Hand: And I was like, oh, I’m done. I’m gonna get this. This is. This is so fast. I’m gonna get this published. And what I learned in the process, which we can talk about more, is there was more learning for me before I put it into the world.

[05:43] So here we are in 2026.

[05:46] Tara Bansal: Very cool.

[05:48] You wrote it primarily during that week,

[05:51] it sounds like.

[05:52] And then how did you carve out the time to keep it going?

[05:57] Or did you. Was it just catchers catch can when you could?

[06:04] Liz Hand: One thing I needed to learn in the process was how to really trust my intuition.

[06:09] And that’s one of the core tenants of the book is,

[06:13] um, in our relationship with our money and our relationship with ourselves is to lean into this place. Of intuition.

[06:20] And in my intuitive space, I was sensing some spaces and times where I was supposed to set down the book fully, stop,

[06:30] like disengage, do something different,

[06:32] turn my attention. It also kind of coordinates with the provision side of it. I was having I talk about these little love notes from the divine that come. And I again was just sensing these patterns of like, stop fully.

[06:45] But then I would have moments where I felt like, okay, it’s time to pick it back up. It’s time to get back in the energy of the book. And I would start working on it again.

[06:52] And then I tell everybody, this book is coming out so soon, I’m going to publish it very soon, look for it.

[06:58] And then I would get another, like, intuitive,

[07:01] okay, I’m setting this book down.

[07:02] So that was a real learning process for me because,

[07:05] you know, financial planning, you set a goal and a time target with it and you take the steps towards the time target.

[07:13] What I learned is that I needed to release my attachment to time and producing something in a very particular way and really lean into the flow of the book.

[07:24] Tara Bansal: Wow, that’s really so important. And I think all of us need to hear that more is to trust ourselves and listen to our own intuition.

[07:35] And this, I mean, I,

[07:38] I feel like I’m gushing, but there, all the words in the book are just so much of what I relate to and want more of you.

[07:49] I think it’s interesting you talk about the Midwestern money mindset.

[07:55] Do you think it really is? I lived in Ohio for a long.

[08:00] Yeah. So for, for a pretty long time.

[08:03] And I identified with so much.

[08:05] Liz Hand: Yeah.

[08:06] Tara Bansal: But part of me wants to argue. I don’t think it’s just Midwestern.

[08:10] Liz Hand: Right.

[08:11] Tara Bansal: Have you learned or heard more from others on that?

[08:15] Liz Hand: I have. So that was the original, like, naming of the framework because I was sensing so much from the client work that I was doing and patterns of the farming,

[08:26] generational farming,

[08:28] and that impact on the way we talked about money and the way we talked about time and productivity and all of that.

[08:33] I tried to practice giving it to people before I was ready.

[08:38] So that’s part of working through perfectionism and being seen as a messy, mistake making human being.

[08:46] And one of my clients who moved to Ohio was like,

[08:51] this is so good. I agree with it 100%. And this is not about Midwestern,

[08:56] Midwestern person.

[08:57] This is about children of the Great Depression.

[09:01] And then another conversation with someone and they’re like, you know, I think this is also applicable to people who grew up in immigrant families.

[09:10] Hmm. And I’m like, huh, I don’t, I don’t actually know what the audience is or what I’m articulating, which I think is part of the curiosity that keeps me moving forward is like, who am I speaking to?

[09:23] Tara Bansal: Well, and that’s one of my questions was,

[09:26] I think,

[09:28] well, tell me where I’m wrong. But I feel like a lot of it was self reflection. So almost like me. Me search, they call it.

[09:36] Liz Hand: Right.

[09:36] Tara Bansal: Instead of research. Me search.

[09:38] Liz Hand: Yeah,

[09:40] Tara Bansal: but did you have a specific, like person or client in mind or did it vary throughout or was it always more focused on yourself?

[09:55] Liz Hand: Um,

[09:56] I think there was quite a bit of self reflection in that because I’ve done so much self reflecting in the coaching work that I’ve received,

[10:05] um, and really breaking down the patterns. But then when I, when I was going through that,

[10:13] I thought about how my financial planning clients did, made certain decisions,

[10:18] and I saw myself in that as I was going through my own coaching process. But then when I started coaching advisors and I saw those same patterns again recreated, I was like, okay,

[10:29] this is like some sort of microcosm of ricocheting types of behaviors.

[10:38] Um,

[10:39] so, yeah, I, I ended up.

[10:41] I use the term making do like the Millers.

[10:44] Tara Bansal: Yep.

[10:44] Liz Hand: And I created that one. My maiden name was Miller, which I decided to put on the book just to like, help clarify that. Yes. Help clarify why did she choose the name Miller?

[10:57] And I, I parroted it to Keeping up with the Joneses.

[11:03] So Keeping up with the Joneses is a pretty broad concept.

[11:07] And so I just told that this is a very broad concept. I don’t know exactly who,

[11:12] but the people that it will matter to will find it because they’re naturally looking at Keeping up with the Joneses and already saying, like,

[11:19] I mean, kind of, but not really me.

[11:21] Tara Bansal: Right. And so describe for those who haven’t read the book what the Miller sure mindset is.

[11:32] Liz Hand: Yeah. So let’s start with keeping up or. Yeah, keeping up with the Joneses.

[11:36] Yes.

[11:37] Because that is,

[11:39] I’m buying things in order to maintain status with what my neighbors have already bought. They buy a boat, it’s time for me to buy a boat. They got new shoes, it’s time for me to get new shoes.

[11:49] And you’re always making financial decisions based off of somebody else’s financial decisions.

[11:55] Making do like the Millers is actually quite similar,

[11:59] but instead of staying above the radar with buying a boat or new shoes,

[12:03] you’re staying very under the radar.

[12:06] So the whole goal of it is not to be seen in other People’s light as too showy, too flashy, too out there.

[12:16] So you’re too much. Yeah, too much. None of that. So you are a very community oriented,

[12:24] very resourceful and thoughtful about the way that you use money. You’re very conscientious and really as I’ve dug into this. More had a conversation with Michael Kitces about this because he saw the beta version of the play that goes along with this book and he said that at Kitsis they’ve done research around it and I’m really speaking to conscientiousness as a personality of the top five personalities.

[12:53] And I was like okay, yeah, that makes sense.

[12:55] So that’s making do like the Millers.

[12:58] High save, low spend with an over attention to the future.

[13:02] Tara Bansal: Uh huh. And wow. I felt like I very much identify with that. I’ve made some progress on my own of enjoying my money. I feel like. And it sounds like from reading your book you also,

[13:19] you know, and maybe that’s part of the timing for you to the intuition of putting the book down during certain times was your own growth and journey to be able to share later the,

[13:37] the responsible one.

[13:40] So I,

[13:42] I call myself a recovering perfectionist and over identified with this character. I’ll call it a character in the book.

[13:52] Liz Hand: Yes.

[13:52] Tara Bansal: Um, and part of me was like it felt like you were writing it for those that are exactly like me.

[14:02] And I had the question of like how prevalent is this character?

[14:08] Do you have an answer to that?

[14:11] Liz Hand: Well,

[14:12] it’s interesting.

[14:14] I’m going to answer your question very indirectly. The, the, the big answer is no,

[14:19] I don’t know exactly. But what I do know is that firstborns are often trained in this way.

[14:27] And yet I am not a firstborn.

[14:29] Tara Bansal: I’m not either.

[14:30] Liz Hand: And so my brother and I co own pleasant wealth. We both have these traits. He is the firstborn.

[14:37] And so another place I’ve seen is like the eldest daughter. People talk about that and that’s becoming more of a conversation out there.

[14:45] Again, I am not the eldest daughter.

[14:48] So while I think those traits are true, that kind of helps someone start getting trained towards the responsible one when they’re very young.

[14:56] There’s also,

[14:58] like I said, immigration.

[15:00] So if you have a child that is bilingual and the parent only speaks one language and the child is having to step in on business decisions and all the negotiations,

[15:13] naturally they’re being trained to be more and more responsible and they’re treated well because of that, because they’re able to keep their family safe and all of that for me I had a childhood sickness that I think was kind of the impetus for me to step up and not want to put too much of a burden on the family during that sickness.

[15:36] But, yeah, I think it’s formed a lot of different ways. I think the people I’m speaking to are the people that make our society run really well and keep things fair and honest and true.

[15:47] And yet they’re feeling very stuck in their role and don’t know how to talk about it because everybody is giving them lots of clapping, you know, accolades and like, you’re doing great.

[15:57] And they’re, first of all, they’re not receiving it. They’re like, thanks, thanks. Okay, no, stop. Stop acknowledging me. I need to stay below the radar.

[16:05] Then also,

[16:07] they feel very bound and stuck in the center of a lot of relationships and are not sure how to find themselves within the context of those relationships. And so the story arc of the book is them identifying how stuck they feel in the center of all of these different relationships and responsibilities,

[16:25] peeling themselves out to understand themself so that they can go back and really serve in the ways that’s true to them,

[16:33] but with a much more.

[16:36] Equal.

[16:38] A lot more.

[16:39] I don’t know, what’s the word?

[16:45] Tara Bansal: The word that comes to mind for me is authentic.

[16:48] Liz Hand: Yeah,

[16:49] for sure. And I think what I’m trying to point to is like this, equal. Like I’m bringing something to the table and you’re bringing something to the table. And I’m not going to over commit if you’re not there with me.

[17:00] But if you’re there, I’m going to step up and we’re going to do this together. But if you’re not, it’s okay. I don’t have to overperform in this way anymore.

[17:08] Tara Bansal: Yes. And I, I do feel like I overperform and. Is that the term Brene Brown uses? I’m trying to think.

[17:22] Liz Hand: I’m not sure.

[17:23] I’ll be honest.

[17:25] Like, part of the birthing of the book process is I turned off all other books and I stopped taking in content of other people,

[17:31] which is because

[17:32] Tara Bansal: you mentioned that in the podcast last year and I didn’t really know that.

[17:38] I just was.

[17:39] That was so neat to like really listen to yourself and focus on yourself instead of getting all these inputs from so many other places.

[17:50] I would love to hear more about your discovery and journey with genuine joy.

[18:00] What.

[18:01] What are you willing to share around that?

[18:03] Liz Hand: Yeah, what, what sparks your curiosity within that? Because that can go a lot of different directions.

[18:10] Tara Bansal: And I’ll.

[18:12] I’ll Speak for kind of part of my background was I was married for almost 10 years and went through a very,

[18:21] for me, traumatic divorce.

[18:24] And after my divorce, it was like the first time that I thought of like, what do I want?

[18:35] And I struggled with.

[18:40] Was interesting for me just to be like. And I, I guess I feel like that’s still common. And I don’t know how much of it is all women or just a subset of women,

[18:52] high achievers,

[18:55] responsible ones that we try to take care of all those around us that then we don’t really know what we want and don’t even think about that.

[19:09] And that holds us stuck.

[19:12] So that’s part of where I’m coming from on just like wanting more of that in my own life.

[19:18] Liz Hand: Yeah.

[19:19] Tara Bansal: How can I do that?

[19:22] Liz Hand: Yeah. What comes up for me is, is the lens of attention. And when you are that caring type of person that wants to.

[19:29] Incapable,

[19:33] efficient, optimizing. Like when you’re that type of person and that’s how you approach your life.

[19:39] You, you,

[19:40] you’ve trained your attention to be reading the room of what’s going on all around you.

[19:46] And that attention isn’t then turned towards, towards yourself. And it actually feels more scary to turn it back towards yourself because you are.

[19:55] You’re generating like a sense of belonging based on what’s happening in the room.

[20:00] So trusting yourself enough and the people around you enough to start turning that attention inward is a real act of trust.

[20:10] Um, like, it does shift the relationships for a period of time because people,

[20:15] you’re not the one that’s volunteering every time. You’re not the one that’s making sure it looks pristine before it goes out the door.

[20:23] You are giving other people the chance to step up and to make a mistake.

[20:30] And so as you start turning your attention inward, a lot of times what I hear from my coaching clients is it’s uncomfortable to sit still.

[20:38] I sit down and then I remember that there’s laundry to do, so I go do that.

[20:44] I sit down and then my spouse or my kids or, or my friend calls me and they have something that they need and I get up and do that. It’s.

[20:53] It’s just this place of attention to the ur. The urgent of other people around me, the needs of other people around me, and being in that discomfort of sitting alone in the quiet,

[21:03] following little intuitive pops that you have of like, oh, I think I’m gonna go get ice cream or actually painting sounds really kind of fun right now. Or please just give me a book and everybody leave me For a while.

[21:14] I’d like to get lost in this story.

[21:18] Within all of those, we get these little intuitive pops that help us understand what it is that we really want,

[21:25] but we have to slow down enough to see it. And oftentimes we’re so overbooked and we don’t even recognize it.

[21:33] No,

[21:34] I agree.

[21:35] Yeah. I’m sure you’ve run into this. I’ve run into it with my own calendar. But one of my clients shared with me that her EA told her,

[21:43] like, you don’t have any gaps in your schedule. This is the most booked calendar that I have.

[21:48] And the conversation before that was,

[21:52] I’m just, I’m not. I’m.

[21:54] I feel like I’m not doing enough or something around the. Trying to fit more in.

[21:59] And it’s, it’s just this, like, we’ve normalized that having a completely booked calendar, that going from one event to the next to the next to being at an event like 3/4 of the amount of time that it is so that you can get to the next one on time is normal.

[22:17] And it’s. It doesn’t, it doesn’t have to be normal. You actually can have more spaciousness in your day.

[22:22] Tara Bansal: Yeah. And to intentionally choose that.

[22:27] But it is a shift.

[22:30] And going back to what you were saying,

[22:33] I feel like it’s breaking the patterns, especially like with the people around us who are used to us taking care of things or doing things a certain way.

[22:44] And with our schedule, like,

[22:47] I try to not schedule things on Mondays and Fridays, work wise. But yet I’m still.

[22:57] I feel like overly cramming in more stuff.

[23:02] Liz Hand: You rationalize it, it might be a slight var. You might say, like, okay, I’m not gonna do this kind of work, but this book is a side project. It’s kind of fun and I’m doing it for myself, so I’m gonna work on that.

[23:13] Which is another form of work.

[23:16] We just trick ourselves over and over.

[23:18] Tara Bansal: Like doing this podcast. Right, Right.

[23:20] Liz Hand: Yeah, exactly. It is fun and it’s fun. There is a component of it that is very life giving and generates a lot of curiosity.

[23:27] But then it quickly turns into.

[23:30] It’s. It’s like how perfectionism just sneaks in and,

[23:34] and causes us to start measuring it and perfecting it and growing it and all of the things that snap us right back into the pattern that we were trying to break to begin with.

[23:45] Tara Bansal: So for you and the, the genuine joy, how has that evolved for you over the past? I’m going to just say five, five, six, Years started.

[23:59] Liz Hand: Um,

[24:00] I have it. It took me a bit to.

[24:04] I think it was a two or three year gap between me finding what I actually wanted money to be for me.

[24:12] I highlight in the beginning, in the very intro of the book, that when I saw the money symbol, the first feeling that came to mind for me was the word responsible, which is, you know, a lot of the context of the book.

[24:23] Um,

[24:24] but finding your genuine joy, creating enough spaciousness to actually know, like, what do I want money to be? Money can be anything. Money is connected to all areas of our life.

[24:34] So what is the most invigorating,

[24:37] most authentic way of relating to money and the word that I finally came to after a good number of, of,

[24:45] you know, hours of just sitting in quiet, sitting in my hot tub conversations,

[24:51] I came to the word creativity. And I was like, oh,

[24:54] if money can be creativity, then I want that all day, every day. I love creativity.

[24:59] And what I realized in the last five or six years is as I was processing all of the,

[25:07] the mindset work that I was doing for myself,

[25:10] I was processing it through art. And like, I even have one right in front of me, um, that I’ve been keeping with me as I’m getting ready for the book.

[25:18] Um,

[25:19] I was learning how to play. I learned how to play hundreds of songs on the piano and sing with it.

[25:24] Um, I did a lot of painting, collaging.

[25:27] And earlier this year,

[25:32] for whatever reason, I decided to just bring all of my art together and lay it out. And so there were months which behind me, I had it just all over my floor,

[25:42] like one piece after the other.

[25:44] And I just sat with it for the year. And I realized, like, this is what gives me the most satisfaction,

[25:53] is this sense of playful creativeness.

[25:57] Creativity. Creativeness isn’t a word. Creativity that like, sparks something deeper. And I, it’s, it’s I.

[26:05] For the truest part of Liz to come into the world,

[26:08] it is a sense of a lightheartedness that like, hits you in the heart, that almost makes you want to cry.

[26:15] And that’s just who I am. And the more I embrace that part of me and let that come forth, the happier I am. I show up so much different in my close relationships.

[26:25] I show up different at the office, I show up different with clients. I’m having different conversations because I’m letting me be myself truly that authentic, joy filled, like,

[26:35] wellspring of joy that comes in bounds.

[26:41] Tara Bansal: Wow, that’s beautiful. And I remember after our conversation from the first season, like, that was what was most memorable to me.

[26:55] Was your creativity and how you were making time for it and incorporating it. And,

[27:04] uh, do you.

[27:05] Do you feel like even then, you already knew that?

[27:10] Like, a year ago,

[27:12] I think last

[27:12] Liz Hand: year I would have defined that money to that creativity is the way that I access the most expansiveness, abundance in life and in money.

[27:22] Um,

[27:23] but I.

[27:25] In bringing all of my art together and putting it on the floor and, like, looking at all of the music that I learned over that time,

[27:33] calling myself an artist feels very edgy. But I’m like, oh, I am an artist.

[27:38] Tara Bansal: Oh, you are an artist. Like, to be. I’m in shock that there’s any resistance to that.

[27:46] Liz Hand: Feels so. Like,

[27:48] it feels dangerous. Like, being the responsible one, it’s much more easy for me to be like, I’m the financial planner. I help you organize the things. I’m a business owner.

[27:56] I make sure my employees have everything they need.

[27:59] Um,

[27:59] I’m a coach.

[28:01] I help somebody find the life that’s most important to them and shed all of the limiting beliefs. Beside that,

[28:08] that feels like an easier grab. But if. If we go to the artistic side of me, I’m like, but there’s artists down the street from me in this arts district that our office is in that are incredible.

[28:18] They spend a lot more time. They’ve been doing this for a longer period of time, and they get paid for it.

[28:25] For me,

[28:26] like, this is this. This piece of art.

[28:30] This is 625 for those that are watching along.

[28:33] It meant something to me when I was doing it, but would.

[28:37] I don’t know that it has the same meaning to other people.

[28:40] And I think that’s okay.

[28:43] It’s just coming to terms with who I am and letting myself, like, flex a little bit more.

[28:50] Tara Bansal: But it still seems like a avenue that gets you besides giving you joy, but actually brings more abundance in every.

[29:05] What you’re describing is with your relationships, with your work, with, like, it’s like your best self,

[29:12] then is showing up more and more through having access to that creativity and doing that. Is that.

[29:20] Liz Hand: Yeah, I agree.

[29:23] Tara Bansal: Okay. Yeah. I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but that’s what I’m hearing.

[29:27] Liz Hand: Totally. So.

[29:28] Tara Bansal: Okay. I’d love to hear more about the play. Did that come before or after the book?

[29:38] Liz Hand: It came after the book. It was pretty soon.

[29:41] I’m going to say it was early 2024. So I had written the initial, like, 60% of the book.

[29:47] And I am a regular breathwork person.

[29:50] Love it.

[29:52] And in one of my breathwork sessions, I had been Asking, like, what is the purpose of this book if I was supposed to set it down? Cause I was in a period of, like, set this down, don’t pay attention to it.

[30:02] And what’s the purpose of this? Why?

[30:05] And I just kept asking, what’s the purpose? What’s the purpose? What’s the purpose? And the response I received was the word actress.

[30:12] And I was pretty stumped. Like, I didn’t. I don’t have any family members or any,

[30:20] like, close people to me that are pursuing acting in any way. And so I didn’t know what it meant.

[30:27] So I kept it quiet. I didn’t tell a soul.

[30:30] Didn’t even tell the breathwork person, the coach.

[30:32] Tara Bansal: Not even your coach or.

[30:33] Liz Hand: No, didn’t say it to anybody because I was like,

[30:36] I didn’t even tell my husband.

[30:38] I just kind of held it and didn’t know what to do with it. And there were a series of events of getting connected to someone who. Who has been in my life for a good 10 years.

[30:54] Ish.

[30:55] That helped me end up co writing the play. And then he’s directing it. He helped me hire an actor out of Cleveland.

[31:02] Um,

[31:02] and so we’ll be performing it three times at the end of September.

[31:08] We’ve got a local performance. I’ve got a private performance for my BD RIA that I’m affiliated with. And then I’ll be performing publicly at the XY Planning Network live, which is when that is.

[31:22] October 1st.

[31:23] Tara Bansal: Oh, so exciting.

[31:25] Liz Hand: That will be fun.

[31:26] Tara Bansal: Yeah. So have you done it yet? It sounds like you did a beta version or not.

[31:32] Liz Hand: We did a bunch of play. We did three play readings to test audiences. Again, kind of back to our original question, like, who am I speaking to?

[31:41] And it was quite interesting because at the financial planner, I. I delivered one of the play readings at Limitless.

[31:50] And the whole room there, there’s just this one section of the. Of the play where I read some statements. And you stand and sit. If it applies to you, whole room, up, down, up, down.

[32:01] Every time, like, everybody’s looking around like, what’s happening?

[32:05] Um, that was super fun. And then I delivered it to a group of family and friends. And that was lesser, so it didn’t hit everybody.

[32:14] And then I delivered it to a group, a local women’s group that I’m in for women in their professional life.

[32:22] And that room, again, saw a lot of people standing and sitting. And so I think it’s highly prevalent for women. I think it’s highly prevalent for financial planners. And then I think there’s some other subsets of people that it applies to.

[32:33] But,

[32:35] yeah, so I’ve. I’ve tested the audiences. I feel really good about it,

[32:40] made some tweaks to the script to. To really let it have the tone that I want.

[32:47] And then we have not formally performed it yet,

[32:51] still in our final practices.

[32:55] And it’s been.

[32:57] I recently read a. Read a story about a woman who was doing some art in, like, formally in a college and was trying to get a piece together, and the piece wasn’t coming together.

[33:09] And at the same time, her parents were going through a divorce.

[33:13] And so she goes to her instructor and is like, I can’t get these pieces to stay in the way that I need it to.

[33:19] And the instructor told her, like, isn’t that interesting that you have two pieces that have come apart and you can’t get them back together? And at the same time,

[33:27] your parents. Your parents are going through this divorce. Like,

[33:30] the art is working you through this grief.

[33:35] In the same way, this play, as I’ve been practicing for it and trying to memorize it and, like,

[33:41] trying to open myself up in a way that feels very, like, natural in some ways, but also very daunting in other ways,

[33:50] the art is working me.

[33:53] I’ve had multiple, like,

[33:55] personal breakdowns of.

[33:58] I don’t know if I can memorize this. I don’t know if I’m going to be able to perform this in the way that it needs to. And just recognizing that this is me party,

[34:06] learning to put down my perfectionism in performance,

[34:10] that maybe on stage I will forget a line and it’s okay. Like, it actually doesn’t.

[34:16] It doesn’t detract from the underlying message that is getting out there and is, like, coming forth from me whether or not I’m ready.

[34:24] Tara Bansal: And a little bit of improv,

[34:27] embracing that. I don’t know how much, but it sounds like you’re definitely,

[34:35] I don’t know,

[34:36] trying something new. And I was gonna. Are you enjoying the actress part?

[34:42] Liz Hand: I am, I think,

[34:44] like, piecing back some memories. Throughout my life, there have been moments where people have seen me in quasi actress mode. And they’re like, you are so good on stage. You are great in front of people.

[34:56] You have to figure out how you can speak to people.

[34:59] Tara Bansal: This other part of you comes like that. Like, it’s kind of, you know, little glimmers of what’s to come. And hearing that.

[35:08] Liz Hand: Yeah.

[35:09] And the director,

[35:11] you’ve just. At our last rehearsal, he said so there are moments when you look like you’re Having so much fun on stage,

[35:19] and those are the points where it’s really flowing. And then there’s moments where I can tell that you are frustrated with yourself and judging, and you look. You look like you hate it there on stage.

[35:30] It’s like, oh, okay.

[35:32] But I really want to get.

[35:34] It’s. It’s so interesting because I want to get the words right because I want the message to carry, but part of it is trusting that the message is going to carry anyway.

[35:42] Tara Bansal: Yeah. Huh. One question I had is you share a lot about yourself and even your family. How. How was that for you?

[35:58] Liz Hand: And from what respect

[36:01] Tara Bansal: was it? Was the. Was there any fear? Any, like, did you have to get approval from your husband? Like, talking about.

[36:14] Liz Hand: That’s a good question.

[36:15] Tara Bansal: Oh, my goodness.

[36:16] Liz Hand: When Nate hears this, he’s like. He’s gonna be like,

[36:18] she never asked me for any kind of approval.

[36:23] I guess I didn’t, and perhaps I should have for some of those. But I did try to be really true to my perspective and not project onto anybody else.

[36:33] Um, so any of those stories that I shared,

[36:37] I wanted it to radically come from my point of view and from what I was learning through it. Not about speaking about our relationship in any way or putting their lens of the story in too much.

[36:52] So there’s a couple of times where I share some different pieces in the story. Some of it’s marriage, some of it’s family, some of it’s team.

[37:02] And I did try to honor.

[37:04] Just, you know, these are the people in my life. Yeah.

[37:08] Tara Bansal: All right. I don’t know why I always wonder that,

[37:11] because I just feel like when you’re being vulnerable,

[37:15] it’s hard not to,

[37:18] I don’t know, involve other people, because they’re part of your life, too.

[37:23] Liz Hand: So I. I was just curious. I. I don’t know what their relationship is with the book, because I’ve. I feel like it’s not my business to ask.

[37:33] If they want to offer it, then they can. But I. I think some of my family members just simply haven’t read it. And that’s okay,

[37:44] because, you know, we all have our fears and what we’re willing to be with and not willing to be with. They’re pretty familiar with my sharing process.

[37:52] Tara Bansal: All right. Thank you.

[37:54] Liz Hand: Yeah.

[37:57] Tara Bansal: I feel like it’s an important part of the book.

[38:01] On page 57,

[38:04] you talk about the 150% ownership of a relationship.

[38:13] I would love for you to explain that and talk through that, if you don’t mind. I don’t know.

[38:21] You mind taking the Time to do it. But I’d love to.

[38:24] For me, this is,

[38:26] I. I feel like it’s a lesson I need to hear and understand better.

[38:32] So I’m inviting you to.

[38:35] Liz Hand: Yeah, I will. I’ll give a little flash of that page for anybody who’s watching over the video. And you can see this is the image that we’re talking about on your right.

[38:46] So I just got this book today and oh my goodness, it feels good in my hands,

[38:52] first time holding it. But.

[38:55] So this is that scanning the room type of process and entering a room, entering a relationship, and looking to see what the other person needs, what’s their motivations.

[39:08] It ends up really helping you be a good financial planner, good event planner, good pastor, good social worker, because you’re, you are looking beyond what’s on the surface to really dig deep in what’s happening with that person behind the scenes of their life, whether or not they are aware of it.

[39:25] So in the relationship, I, I talk about a relationship being two sides of a coin.

[39:31] The front side of the coin is everything that you see that happens in the relationship.

[39:35] Taste, see, touch, smell, hear, tangible, practical on the surface.

[39:39] Um, and then the backside of the coin are these underlying motivations, biases,

[39:45] thoughts, feelings, projections,

[39:49] expectations, desires, needs.

[39:52] And the,

[39:53] the hard thing about the backside of the coin for everybody is that you have to understand yourself enough to even articulate what’s on the backside of the coin for you.

[40:07] And so what I find is that with this responsible person,

[40:10] they’re entering their relationships, scanning and looking of course, what’s on the surface of the relationship and making sure that’s working well both sides of the street. So that first 100% the top of the coin,

[40:23] but then they’re also naturally looking under the coin on the other person’s side of the street. So they’re looking to see what’s motivating them, what their desires are, what their needs are, and trying to see if they can help meet them in some way, shape or form.

[40:36] But what they leave off the table is their own side of the street, the back of the coin.

[40:41] And so I’m calling this, you know, if a full relationship,

[40:44] both the top and the bottom is 200%, because we got my side, your side at the top, my side, your side at the back,

[40:54] then the responsible one is taking a lot of ownership of 150% of the relationship. But they’re really not addressing their own wants, desires, needs, projections, expectations in the relationship.

[41:05] And by ignoring those one, they’re overstepping with the other person because they’re not letting the other person own their. Their full side of the street.

[41:16] Then two, they’re not owning their own side of the street in its fullness. And so they quickly get into a resentment with. Within that relationship because they feel like my needs aren’t being met, but they’re not actually articulating them or even really understanding them for themselves.

[41:32] Tara Bansal: That helps a lot. I.

[41:37] And this is my interpretation of that. So is on the other side, where I think of it as more of the hidden things that you can’t, you know, aren’t see, smell, hear, or touch,

[41:52] that those responsible ones are trying to read the other person’s mind, read everything that is hidden,

[42:05] to proactively anticipate it and take care of it,

[42:12] and not letting the other person vocalize that or admit to whatever those things are.

[42:22] And yet what I’m hearing, I think this is part of what I was missing, is they’re not vocalizing their own hidden things,

[42:31] possibly to themselves,

[42:33] but definitely not to the other person.

[42:37] And what,

[42:42] what are the consequences of that?

[42:46] Liz Hand: Yeah, I mean, what’s it like when someone assumes in your life why you’re doing something that you’re doing in the relationship?

[42:54] Tara Bansal: Well, I always think of the teacher assume makes an *** out of you and out of me.

[43:00] Liz Hand: Yes. And then on a practical sense, what’s it like? Just picture one relationship

[43:09] Tara Bansal: and this is where part of me wants to argue, like with my husband.

[43:14] I want him to try to read my mind and know what I want where I don’t have to tell him.

[43:22] And.

[43:23] And yet when he guesses wrong,

[43:27] I then get upset.

[43:30] And so that’s part of my reaction is something I want, but when it doesn’t go well,

[43:37] I get even more upset.

[43:40] Liz Hand: Yeah.

[43:41] Tara Bansal: And that’s not. I realize that’s not fair to him.

[43:45] Liz Hand: Sure.

[43:46] I’ve articulated it and I still am learning this within my marriage relationship. Like, that’s our. One of our tightest relationships and a lot of safety is built around that. So a lot of graciousness to ourselves as we learn it in that space.

[44:01] If we take like even a much lower stakes relationship, you’re at the, you’re at the coffee shop and the barista’s there. And they’re like, what do you want?

[44:14] Like, I don’t know what I want.

[44:17] What do you like?

[44:20] And the barista’s like, well, I like a white chocolate mocha. And you’re like, that sounds great, I’ll have that.

[44:25] You drink it. And you’re like, oh, this is way too Sweet. I hate this.

[44:29] That whole process is you not really taking the time to ask yourself, do I want something savory? Do I want something sweet? What kind of price range do I want?

[44:37] Because it feels like too much effort. So you’re relinquishing your power to somebody else to make a guess, make a stab in the dark, and give you a drink that you want and that you’re willing to pay for.

[44:49] And they’re doing it based on their own wants and desires. Maybe under the under hidden desires or, you know, on the top of the coin.

[44:56] Um,

[44:57] that just highlights it in a different kind of you wouldn’t we do that? I do that when I go to the coffee shop.

[45:04] Um, and I’m trying to practice not doing that because I feel like if I can get. Nail it in that area where I’m like, asking myself, what do I actually want today?

[45:13] Let me pick off of the menu for myself and my price range and all of that, then I can take it into some of those more substantial relationships where there’s more at stake.

[45:24] Where.

[45:25] Tara Bansal: But start small and start small. Yeah.

[45:27] Liz Hand: That’s why I think money is such a great mirror for us.

[45:30] And if we can practice just looking at these transactions that we’re making every single day and the ways that we’re deferring our relationships or really not owning our side of the street or overstepping.

[45:44] So here’s. Here’s another example of overstepping in a financial situation.

[45:49] My sister getting ready to purchase something. Let’s say it’s plane tickets or something.

[45:55] She starts down the process of doing the plane ticket thing. I step in and say, well, no, you don’t want to do it that way. You actually want to go to this website.

[46:02] This is how you do that. Da da da da da. She didn’t ask me for my help.

[46:07] I’m assuming I’m taking more. I’m taking 100 for 50% of the relationship. And, like,

[46:11] actually, let me. Let me control this for you. So, again, this is a place where if I can step out of some financial transactions in that way,

[46:18] I can maybe practice it in some of other relationships,

[46:22] which, okay, my sister is a good relationship that is close to me and is a place that it’s harder to practice with versus a barista. But,

[46:32] yeah. What does that bring up for you?

[46:35] Tara Bansal: It brings up for me.

[46:38] I feel like this is a coaching session, but especially around parenting as a parent too often trying to make things easier for our kids, but then we are taking away them.

[46:58] Having that learning and having that Independence and them even figuring out what they want instead of knowing, oh, this is what mom wants or something,

[47:09] or this is how mom thinks it should be done.

[47:12] And so that’s part of what comes up for me.

[47:17] Liz Hand: Yeah.

[47:17] Tara Bansal: Wanting my kids to have their own opinions and independence and things like that.

[47:25] Liz Hand: So funny. I highlight the quote from Maria Montessori,

[47:30] what you do for me, you take from me,

[47:33] which was a quote that I saw in one of the brochures of my kids going into a Montessori school. And to that point, like, my kids will fold laundry for their teacher.

[47:45] Will they do it for me?

[47:47] No.

[47:48] Because what I do for them, I take from them. And they’ve learned that. And they milk that. And I also feel uncomfortable with the process of just letting them do their thing.

[47:57] But in that setting, like, I’ve seen the.

[48:01] The distinction of where a teacher comes in and uses a different approach and gets different results in their relationships.

[48:08] Tara Bansal: Yeah. And I’ve also seen with my.

[48:13] My boys like them feeling proud of, like, figuring something out or feeling like they’re making a contribution.

[48:22] And I love that quote.

[48:24] To apply not just to as parents, but to our other relationships too.

[48:31] Liz Hand: Yeah. So in that it’s kind of what we were talking about earlier, of circling back and meeting relationships as equals.

[48:39] If I can do that,

[48:41] I match them. I get to honor their pride that they have in the work that they do,

[48:47] whether it’s my colleague or my child or my spouse or a client.

[48:54] And if they want. Or friend or a friend. And if they want to exceed even further, I’ll match their stride.

[49:00] If they don’t,

[49:02] there’s no extra effort that has to go into that to make them do something that they never wanted to do to begin with.

[49:09] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[49:11] I think sometimes that’s hard.

[49:13] When,

[49:15] like, how much to help do you feel like that comes up?

[49:22] I don’t know. That’s my reaction of like, they say they want to.

[49:26] Liz Hand: And yet.

[49:28] Tara Bansal: And I think you gave an example of that in the book of, like,

[49:33] asking more questions instead of jumping in to help.

[49:38] To help. Trying to help them find their own way.

[49:41] Liz Hand: Yeah.

[49:42] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[49:43] Liz Hand: I think when someone.

[49:44] You’ll see it.

[49:46] Let’s see, what kind of relationship can we use that doesn’t feel too.

[49:51] In my space.

[49:52] So let’s say it’s somebody that I’m volunteering at an organization and it’s one of the clients of the organization. And let’s say I’m doing pro bono financial planning.

[50:05] And the piece that we need is for them to bring statements to the meeting and they bring some statements, but maybe they’re missing one. And it’s actually kind of a key piece.

[50:17] Maybe it’s the, like, the budget, you know, like, how much are you actually spending? And they’re like, ah, I don’t know. I can’t. I can’t get it. And there’s.

[50:27] Until they allow themselves to get it and to bring that fully to the table,

[50:33] you are dragging them around in something that they’re not committed to anyway. It’s. It’s like coaching. You know, this from. With your clients. Like, as soon as they’re willing to step up and take the action,

[50:44] they’re going to get way more out of the engagement than not. And me slowing down and letting them struggle is actually really helpful for that engagement, for that financial plan, for them to feel better about their money.

[50:56] Yeah. Um, so too, in our other relationships,

[51:00] Tara Bansal: what comes up for me is the mush inside the chrysalis that, like, to become a butterfly, it has to struggle in order to be able to fly.

[51:11] Like, if you cut it open, it will never be able to fly. So that we need the struggle to learn. I think so often when I think back on my life,

[51:21] most of my growth,

[51:23] unfortunately or fortunately happened during some of the hardest times. That.

[51:29] Liz Hand: Yeah.

[51:29] Tara Bansal: You know. Yeah.

[51:31] Liz Hand: And I think when. When we are in a helper position,

[51:35] there’s a way that we want to take away that hurt from other people.

[51:39] But if we do, if each of us look back at our own lives and what formed us to be this responsible one,

[51:47] we will see that the struggle brought the gold that we’re using in a completely different way.

[51:53] So rather than overstepping in that relationship and taking on 150%, just meet them where they are.

[51:59] They will sort themselves out.

[52:00] It’s.

[52:01] It’s such a sacred act of trust in a relationship, and it really does create more connection, which is another tenet of the real financial freedom that I talk about.

[52:10] Tara Bansal: Yeah. To me, I feel like a lot of what we’re talking about doesn’t really relate to money.

[52:17] Liz Hand: Isn’t that delicious?

[52:21] Tara Bansal: And you do give some examples in the book of,

[52:26] like,

[52:27] I don’t know, putting off your meeting with your financial advisor or not, you know, taking different actions or.

[52:36] But I don’t know. That’s what just came to me. Is that so much of our conversation, we haven’t really been talking about money, we’ve been talking about ourselves, which is the whole money is a mirror.

[52:47] Liz Hand: And that’s something that I have kind of worked through and finessed as I was making the book is like,

[52:53] how much do I need to be talking about money specifically?

[52:56] And yet money is subconscious.

[52:59] We just use it in the ways that we use it. And so for the person that’s really wanting to look at the way that they’re making financial transactions,

[53:09] all of their relationships are going to end. The ways that they operate in relationship shows there. Because money is exchange and relationship is exchange.

[53:18] And so that’s why I’m talking about.

[53:20] Money is the mirror that reflects our relationship with ourselves. It reflects our relationship with others. It reflects our relationship with a higher power or God, however you’d like to say it.

[53:31] And so we can use it as a tool and as a training ground. Like, if I can work on my transactions, my coffee transactions,

[53:39] financial transactions,

[53:41] and learn how to treat myself with this intuitive,

[53:45] let that intuition grow,

[53:47] and I can learn how to trust this other person and let that connection be different,

[53:54] then I can take that into other avenues of my life.

[54:00] Tara Bansal: Wonderful.

[54:02] One question I had,

[54:05] or another question is,

[54:08] it’s on page 91,

[54:10] but I.

[54:11] How would you describe the difference between a gut reaction out of fear versus out of possibility and trust?

[54:24] And I feel like as a coach and with myself as a client,

[54:30] this is a real struggle.

[54:33] So I’d love to hear more of what advice you have or how to describe the difference between those two.

[54:42] Liz Hand: Yeah,

[54:45] our body is such a guide for us.

[54:48] And when you are someone who has made your life around a lot of heady things,

[54:55] optimization,

[54:57] planning,

[54:58] making life work, you’re in your head a lot and you’re actually not physically in your body.

[55:03] And it will be hard to, at the onset to under. To distinguish the difference between what is for me and what is a reaction that I’m having.

[55:15] But one thing I’ve learned in the pro, like, I haven’t made all perfect financial decisions as I’ve honed intuition and connection and provision.

[55:27] But I’m.

[55:29] I also trust that in the moment when I make a financial decision. Here’s. Here’s one financial decision that I made.

[55:36] Um,

[55:37] I spent. It was probably like $600 on a promo video for the.

[55:43] For the play.

[55:44] But I did it based off of the play reading. And so it doesn’t really, like,

[55:48] zing. It’s not like a conference would see that and be like,

[55:51] that’s the one.

[55:52] Because we’re reading out of books.

[55:54] My marketing person told me this, and I was like, no, no, no, we’re doing this. Have to do it. Have to follow the. The intuitive pop. Whatever, I’ll pay whatever I need to pay.

[56:03] And I have sent it out a couple of times, but it’s. It’s not super usable.

[56:10] So that was actually out of a fear that I was going to miss the wave of excitement that initially was happening at the moments during the reading.

[56:19] And so not a perfect financial decision.

[56:25] But I also trust everything that came after that and all of the realizations. And the more I let myself have those little gut reactions that are out of fear,

[56:37] then I can define them better. And it feels physically different in my body, but I could tell you how it feels for me.

[56:44] Each of us have to find how it feels for us,

[56:47] and I agree with that.

[56:48] Tara Bansal: I do think that is key. And the more coaching I do, the more I feel like tuning into your body is so important.

[57:03] Just out of curiosity, how would you describe the difference for you in your body?

[57:08] Liz Hand: Just so when I have something that I know is for me, I have this lightning bolt, is what I call it. And it goes from my head down to my gut and back up.

[57:18] Okay. It happened when I met my husband or when we went on our first date. I had that feeling. I was like, oh, this is the one. And I knew right away.

[57:27] Um,

[57:28] I had that feeling with our home purchase.

[57:31] I have had that feeling in a lot of different places.

[57:34] Tara Bansal: Um, so you know that feeling, Like,

[57:38] Liz Hand: I know that feeling.

[57:38] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[57:39] Liz Hand: Yes.

[57:40] Um, when I’ve made financial decisions or other decisions from a place of fear, I think there is more.

[57:46] A little bit more tension in my chest and an urgency in my gut. And so I think it. It mimics it a little bit in that it’s in multiple places, but it is slightly different.

[57:57] Can I define it in the moment? Like,

[58:00] okay, we humans, we make decisions from a place of feeling, and then we rationalize them logically. Every single person does that. Any human being on the planet,

[58:13] some people are quicker to go to the logic side and really put out the data, but at the end of the day, they. They make it from a place of feeling.

[58:21] So getting used to noticing the feeling is really helpful. And what I’ll offer to each of those who are listening and to you is to find the place where your body feels the most at home.

[58:34] So for some of you that might be out in amongst the trees,

[58:38] for some of you that might be in the ocean, for some of you that might be,

[58:43] you know, in an airplane or, you know, I don’t. I don’t know what it is,

[58:47] but each of us have this. This sense of self that we can tap into and get more in tune with our body. And for Me, that’s the hot tub, which I talk about making that purchase.

[59:01] I kind of knew that water was a thing for me as soon as I bought it. My younger brother was like,

[59:06] you were always the one that was like going to the pool right away, like going to a hotel. You were the one that made sure that we all had our swimsuits.

[59:13] Of course, water is the thing for you. Um,

[59:17] but anyway, yeah,

[59:19] giving yourself that spaciousness in the place where your body feels most at home allows you to tap more into what am I physically sensing in this moment.

[59:28] Tara Bansal: And I think to your point, like, start trying to notice and just keep looking and feeling and see what you gather from that information.

[59:42] Liz Hand: Yeah. It’s not as squishy as people think it is.

[59:46] People think that it’s like this squishy type of interaction that is not for them if they’re more logic based. But honestly I find that it’s data that’s really reliable when you get to know it.

[01:00:00] Tara Bansal: I do too. And it’s. Yeah. As a coach, like learning to pay attention to that, having the client be able to learn that for themselves.

[01:00:11] Liz Hand: Yeah.

[01:00:13] Tara Bansal: One of the most powerful things for me and.

[01:00:22] I just imagine and I, I’m. Part of me is afraid of saying this but like, of doing like a class or having more,

[01:00:34] more ways to dig into this book.

[01:00:37] Have you thought about that at all?

[01:00:40] Liz Hand: I’m an ideas person. I’ve thought of a lot of ideas. Um, I thought about retreats.

[01:00:48] Tara Bansal: Okay.

[01:00:48] Liz Hand: That’s been probably the primary idea of digging in further if conferences want to take because the, the play that I have really highlights the key points of the book,

[01:01:00] but doesn’t get into the how. And so I have the free framework that I’ve built around how we navigate life change and really transforming ourselves and getting free with money that I,

[01:01:14] I have like a beta version of it, but I haven’t fully fleshed it out.

[01:01:18] But yeah, I, I really like the idea of retreats. So that’s kind of in the back of my mind what’s stirring.

[01:01:25] Tara Bansal: Very cool.

[01:01:26] On page 93. This was what to me,

[01:01:31] if I had to say, what was the biggest takeaway?

[01:01:38] And there were so many, like with the coin with.

[01:01:42] There were a lot of big parts, but the questions.

[01:01:46] You had nine questions to ask yourself that will help you understand what financially free means for you.

[01:01:54] And I’m just going to read a couple of them but for intuition. If I trusted myself fully, how would I earn money differently?

[01:02:04] If I trusted myself fully, how would I hold money differently? And if I Trusted myself fully, how would I spend money differently?

[01:02:14] And so she has these questions for intuition,

[01:02:20] connection,

[01:02:21] and then provision.

[01:02:23] And I just, I haven’t even like really given those questions the time and space, but I felt like they were so powerful for me.

[01:02:37] Have you gotten feedback or. I’d love to hear more on if other people had the same reaction as I have.

[01:02:46] Liz Hand: I haven’t had somebody come back and give me their answers to that.

[01:02:50] But what I.

[01:02:52] One of the main beliefs I have with money is that it actually doesn’t matter how much money that you have.

[01:02:58] Finding this sense of intuition, connection and provision allows you to be financially free at any stage. And so I think where a lot of money coaches get it wrong is that it’s always more money is better,

[01:03:13] earning more, holding more, spending more is better.

[01:03:16] And I don’t believe that’s true. I don’t think that it might be true for some people, but I don’t think it’s true across the board for every single person.

[01:03:26] And so I have a hunch that for some people they would take a risk on themselves in a way that would reduce their income.

[01:03:34] Or there might be someone who takes a risk on themselves and earns way more money than they ever did before. And those for depending on what type of community that you live in, what kind of family you live in, those are risky endeavors that have relational consequences to them that you’ll sort out over time.

[01:03:55] But if you are true to yourself, those really are great questions to go through. And I’ve tweaked them just a bit since the copy that you saw.

[01:04:04] Tara Bansal: So, yeah, something to look forward to.

[01:04:09] Liz Hand: It’s a great place to spend some time journaling. Spend multiple days just thinking about like one tenant of each of those.

[01:04:16] Tara Bansal: Yes. And I plan to do that.

[01:04:18] So I’ll ask you a question and maybe this can be.

[01:04:21] If every woman listening remembered just one thing from our conversation today,

[01:04:30] what would you hope it would be?

[01:04:33] Liz Hand: Mm,

[01:04:35] I would hope that what they hear is that slowing down is the process to getting what you want.

[01:04:46] And that is usually fairly uncomfortable for high performing women.

[01:04:51] Um,

[01:04:53] and there’s so much freedom there.

[01:04:56] And so like one of my favorite little practices, if you want to do this on your own, to practice what it feels like to slow down is whatever your set point is when you’re driving on the highway, like if the speed limit is 65,

[01:05:13] Liz’s typical is like 72.

[01:05:16] Seven, you’re fine. Eight, you’re mine. So I go, I go with seven over.

[01:05:21] Tara Bansal: So apart we all have these Rules.

[01:05:23] Liz Hand: I know, right?

[01:05:26] Um,

[01:05:26] the practice for me would be driving 65 or 60 to just go slower and see what that feels like,

[01:05:38] because slowness is the path to what you want.

[01:05:41] Um, and that’s just one little place to practice and notice what comes up in your thoughts as you do.

[01:05:47] Tara Bansal: And that brings up for me,

[01:05:49] which I wrote down, but like the financial experiments. But I also feel like life experiments. So that to me, is it like a life experiment of trying something different and seeing what you notice and seeing how it feels and seeing what comes up?

[01:06:11] Liz Hand: Yeah, for sure.

[01:06:13] Tara Bansal: Anything on the financial experiments?

[01:06:16] Like, what came to mind for me is Morgan Houselike talks a lot about doing financial experiments.

[01:06:24] And why don’t you share more of what you talked about in the book around that?

[01:06:31] Liz Hand: Well, one thing I’ll just share from a personal like, aha, moment that I had just recently is when I am in a state of overwhelm,

[01:06:41] I make very fast financial decisions to get them off my plate so that I can do whatever else that I’m trying to move on with. And that is also where I go into making decisions from a place of fear.

[01:06:54] So that would be a place to cause myself to slow down.

[01:06:59] Give myself some sort of like 24 hour rule or some sort of touchpoint check in between so that I can slow myself down and really understand what it is that I want.

[01:07:13] Very nice.

[01:07:13] Tara Bansal: Yeah. So, Liz, what would you like to end with today? What are your last ending thoughts or

[01:07:22] Liz Hand: ideas for women who have spent their lives serving others and really being that responsible one?

[01:07:34] I hold a vision of you accessing the sense of personal freedom that comes with lightness,

[01:07:42] that comes with all of the connection that you’ve so desired in your closest relationships and in the world. And that allows you to bring forth this like soul level contribution that you want to make.

[01:07:55] And so as you encounter life as it unfolds,

[01:08:01] I hope that you see this divine intuition that you have and the divine connection that we have with other people and this divine sense of provision that things are being cared for without our effort as well,

[01:08:17] and that you can share that with others.

[01:08:21] Tara Bansal: Yes. That to me is the tenant of the book, is to have that trust and that faith and that freedom.

[01:08:29] Liz Hand: Yes. Yeah. And then what a world it will be as more. More people access that. That gives me goosebumps just thinking about.

[01:08:38] Tara Bansal: Mm, I can’t wait. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here. Liz’s book, Money is a Mirror is coming out, I think the end of September.

[01:08:49] Liz Hand: Yes, September 25th is the publishing date. Presale is live. You can go to my website lizhandcoaching.com and access the pre sale and it

[01:09:00] Tara Bansal: is well worth it I can tell you. I highly recommend it. So thank you Tara.

[01:09:05] Liz Hand: It’s been so fun to be here and hear the book through your eyes, through your words. It’s a real treat for me. Thank you.

[01:09:12] Tara Bansal: It was great.

[01:09:13] So thank you.

[01:09:15] My biggest takeaway from this incredible conversation with Liz is the importance of slowing down in order to get more of what we really want in our lives.

[01:09:26] If you know me, you know I have been saying this for years. It feels like forever that I want to do less and yet I still am not.

[01:09:40] My days are packed whether it’s a workday or not a work day and things are just scheduled back to back to back.

[01:09:50] So I loved Liz’s idea of experimenting and seeing how and what I can do to try to change this because I drastically want to slow down and do less.

[01:10:07] I need to notice when I’m overperforming and jumping in to help others and moving outside of my own lane and so noticing that.

[01:10:23] And I also think part of this slowing down is trusting to see what emerges when I do create this space and actually am doing less.

[01:10:36] I have a feeling I’m going to come back to this throughout the season because right now so many things in my life are pointing to this need and my desire to slowing down.

[01:10:51] And I hope maybe it will lead to more happiness,

[01:10:59] more satisfaction and the genuine joy that Liz talks about in this episode.

[01:11:06] Thanks for being here.

[01:11:08] Thank you for listening to her life, her practice, her way.

[01:11:12] I hope today’s conversation gave you something to think about and will help you slow down and hear yourself more clearly.

[01:11:19] If you know another woman who might enjoy or get something from this conversation,

[01:11:24] please share this episode with her.

[01:11:26] And until next time, I hope you’ll ask yourself the question I ask every guest and I keep coming back to you.

[01:11:34] What are you giving yourself permission to want right now?

Learn about or preorder Money Is a Mirror

Visit Liz Hand Coaching

Learn about the Money Is a Mirror keynote

Visit Pleasant Wealth

Since 2010, Elizabeth Hand, CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ and Associate Certified Coach has walked alongside people through life’s biggest financial decisions. Again and again, she discovered that money was rarely the real problem, it simply pointed to life underneath. In Money Is a Mirror, she invites you to look past the numbers and lean into that life you’ve been waiting for.

www.pleasantwealth.com  | YouTube  |  Facebook  |  LinkedIn

[00:17] Tara Bansal: Welcome to her life, her practice, her way. A podcast for and about women in financial planning.

[00:25] I’m Tara Conti Bansal, a financial planner and life coach.

[00:29] And I believe that when women thrive in this profession, we all win.

[00:34] As women, we’re often very good at taking care of everyone else and not nearly as good at asking ourselves what we need or what we really want.

[00:45] Through honest conversations, we’ll explore what it means to slow down,

[00:50] trust ourselves and build a life and practice that feels true to who we are.

[00:57] There isn’t one right way. There’s only your way.

[01:01] Welcome,

[01:02] this is Tara Conti Bantzel and I am beyond thrilled to have Liz Hand with me here today.

[01:11] She is the owner of a co owner of Pleasant wealth in Canton, Ohio and she also has her own coaching business, Liz Hand Coaching.

[01:24] I got to know Liz through Limitless.

[01:27] She was on our show last season. But today is special because we are going to talk about Liz’s new book,

[01:37] Money is a Mirror.

[01:39] And I was honored to get a pre read and read it and I mean I, I think the world of Liz and this exceeded all of my expectations.

[01:52] So I just felt like it was so.

[01:56] I could relate to so much and so juicy and so easy to read that I know I’m going to be recommending it to everyone.

[02:06] So here we are. Just thrilled to have her here.

[02:12] Liz. What?

[02:14] Tell us how this started, if you don’t mind. Like, how did you come up with the idea of writing a book and this book in particular?

[02:23] Yeah.

[02:26] Liz Hand: Well, I just want to say first I want to acknowledge that that introduction felt so heartening for me. It’s so fun to hear when your work impacts somebody else, especially someone in my field doing very similar things in the world and caring so much about not only our clients but like the financial planning community.

[02:45] So thank you, Tara.

[02:46] Tara Bansal: Oh, you’re so welcome.

[02:48] Liz Hand: Um, but yes, I never set out to be an author that was not like,

[02:53] you know, as financial planners we’re fairly goal oriented. That was never on any kind of 2, 5, 10 year list of things I wanted to pursue.

[03:05] Um,

[03:06] a lot came together for me in 2020 when I hired a marketing coach and I actually may have shared some of this story on the last time we were here, but I’ll take it a little different direction.

[03:17] The marketing coach was helping me produce a essentially like an abbreviated financial planning program where I and the marketing behind it. And in the process of talking to her and writing some of the copy for it,

[03:32] I was noticing that there is kind of a framework of a person that I was speaking to.

[03:38] And I called it the Midwestern money mindset.

[03:42] And after our engagement concluded, the copy coach. I just asked if I could have some more of her time and put it all on paper for the first time in an abbreviated way.

[03:55] Just what I saw. And her response to me kind of caught me off guard. She was like, this is really deep. Like, depending on how far you want to go with this,

[04:05] this is really juicy content. This. I think this will resonate with a lot of people.

[04:09] And I had a series of conversations where I’d, like, start to hint at these ideas and get this similar type of feedback of, like, I think you’re onto something. I think this is a map that somebody could follow pretty closely.

[04:23] Um,

[04:24] and then I’m also a big fan of Carl Richards. You know, his. His.

[04:30] I start off the book with a story with Carl Richards, and I end the book with a story of Carl Richards.

[04:35] Um,

[04:37] so when I was in his coaching program back in 2023,

[04:43] at the end of the year, he does the one thing,

[04:47] which is a process of getting you to really distill what’s the one thing that’s going to set that would completely change your life if you focused on just that thing next year.

[04:57] And I decided it was time for me to actually write it out in its full potential. I didn’t know what that meant, but I was gonna write it down.

[05:06] And so I started writing it down. And there were a couple of other things that popped right at that time, too, in my mindset work of just seeing myself in a different light.

[05:17] And right then, I was like, oh,

[05:20] this is a book.

[05:21] And I kid you not,

[05:23] like, 60% of the book I wrote in about a week’s time.

[05:27] Tara Bansal: Wow.

[05:28] Liz Hand: Back in December of 2024.

[05:31] Tara Bansal: Oh, my God.

[05:31] Liz Hand: And I was like, oh, I’m done. I’m gonna get this. This is. This is so fast. I’m gonna get this published. And what I learned in the process, which we can talk about more, is there was more learning for me before I put it into the world.

[05:43] So here we are in 2026.

[05:46] Tara Bansal: Very cool.

[05:48] You wrote it primarily during that week,

[05:51] it sounds like.

[05:52] And then how did you carve out the time to keep it going?

[05:57] Or did you. Was it just catchers catch can when you could?

[06:04] Liz Hand: One thing I needed to learn in the process was how to really trust my intuition.

[06:09] And that’s one of the core tenants of the book is,

[06:13] um, in our relationship with our money and our relationship with ourselves is to lean into this place. Of intuition.

[06:20] And in my intuitive space, I was sensing some spaces and times where I was supposed to set down the book fully, stop,

[06:30] like disengage, do something different,

[06:32] turn my attention. It also kind of coordinates with the provision side of it. I was having I talk about these little love notes from the divine that come. And I again was just sensing these patterns of like, stop fully.

[06:45] But then I would have moments where I felt like, okay, it’s time to pick it back up. It’s time to get back in the energy of the book. And I would start working on it again.

[06:52] And then I tell everybody, this book is coming out so soon, I’m going to publish it very soon, look for it.

[06:58] And then I would get another, like, intuitive,

[07:01] okay, I’m setting this book down.

[07:02] So that was a real learning process for me because,

[07:05] you know, financial planning, you set a goal and a time target with it and you take the steps towards the time target.

[07:13] What I learned is that I needed to release my attachment to time and producing something in a very particular way and really lean into the flow of the book.

[07:24] Tara Bansal: Wow, that’s really so important. And I think all of us need to hear that more is to trust ourselves and listen to our own intuition.

[07:35] And this, I mean, I,

[07:38] I feel like I’m gushing, but there, all the words in the book are just so much of what I relate to and want more of you.

[07:49] I think it’s interesting you talk about the Midwestern money mindset.

[07:55] Do you think it really is? I lived in Ohio for a long.

[08:00] Yeah. So for, for a pretty long time.

[08:03] And I identified with so much.

[08:05] Liz Hand: Yeah.

[08:06] Tara Bansal: But part of me wants to argue. I don’t think it’s just Midwestern.

[08:10] Liz Hand: Right.

[08:11] Tara Bansal: Have you learned or heard more from others on that?

[08:15] Liz Hand: I have. So that was the original, like, naming of the framework because I was sensing so much from the client work that I was doing and patterns of the farming,

[08:26] generational farming,

[08:28] and that impact on the way we talked about money and the way we talked about time and productivity and all of that.

[08:33] I tried to practice giving it to people before I was ready.

[08:38] So that’s part of working through perfectionism and being seen as a messy, mistake making human being.

[08:46] And one of my clients who moved to Ohio was like,

[08:51] this is so good. I agree with it 100%. And this is not about Midwestern,

[08:56] Midwestern person.

[08:57] This is about children of the Great Depression.

[09:01] And then another conversation with someone and they’re like, you know, I think this is also applicable to people who grew up in immigrant families.

[09:10] Hmm. And I’m like, huh, I don’t, I don’t actually know what the audience is or what I’m articulating, which I think is part of the curiosity that keeps me moving forward is like, who am I speaking to?

[09:23] Tara Bansal: Well, and that’s one of my questions was,

[09:26] I think,

[09:28] well, tell me where I’m wrong. But I feel like a lot of it was self reflection. So almost like me. Me search, they call it.

[09:36] Liz Hand: Right.

[09:36] Tara Bansal: Instead of research. Me search.

[09:38] Liz Hand: Yeah,

[09:40] Tara Bansal: but did you have a specific, like person or client in mind or did it vary throughout or was it always more focused on yourself?

[09:55] Liz Hand: Um,

[09:56] I think there was quite a bit of self reflection in that because I’ve done so much self reflecting in the coaching work that I’ve received,

[10:05] um, and really breaking down the patterns. But then when I, when I was going through that,

[10:13] I thought about how my financial planning clients did, made certain decisions,

[10:18] and I saw myself in that as I was going through my own coaching process. But then when I started coaching advisors and I saw those same patterns again recreated, I was like, okay,

[10:29] this is like some sort of microcosm of ricocheting types of behaviors.

[10:38] Um,

[10:39] so, yeah, I, I ended up.

[10:41] I use the term making do like the Millers.

[10:44] Tara Bansal: Yep.

[10:44] Liz Hand: And I created that one. My maiden name was Miller, which I decided to put on the book just to like, help clarify that. Yes. Help clarify why did she choose the name Miller?

[10:57] And I, I parroted it to Keeping up with the Joneses.

[11:03] So Keeping up with the Joneses is a pretty broad concept.

[11:07] And so I just told that this is a very broad concept. I don’t know exactly who,

[11:12] but the people that it will matter to will find it because they’re naturally looking at Keeping up with the Joneses and already saying, like,

[11:19] I mean, kind of, but not really me.

[11:21] Tara Bansal: Right. And so describe for those who haven’t read the book what the Miller sure mindset is.

[11:32] Liz Hand: Yeah. So let’s start with keeping up or. Yeah, keeping up with the Joneses.

[11:36] Yes.

[11:37] Because that is,

[11:39] I’m buying things in order to maintain status with what my neighbors have already bought. They buy a boat, it’s time for me to buy a boat. They got new shoes, it’s time for me to get new shoes.

[11:49] And you’re always making financial decisions based off of somebody else’s financial decisions.

[11:55] Making do like the Millers is actually quite similar,

[11:59] but instead of staying above the radar with buying a boat or new shoes,

[12:03] you’re staying very under the radar.

[12:06] So the whole goal of it is not to be seen in other People’s light as too showy, too flashy, too out there.

[12:16] So you’re too much. Yeah, too much. None of that. So you are a very community oriented,

[12:24] very resourceful and thoughtful about the way that you use money. You’re very conscientious and really as I’ve dug into this. More had a conversation with Michael Kitces about this because he saw the beta version of the play that goes along with this book and he said that at Kitsis they’ve done research around it and I’m really speaking to conscientiousness as a personality of the top five personalities.

[12:53] And I was like okay, yeah, that makes sense.

[12:55] So that’s making do like the Millers.

[12:58] High save, low spend with an over attention to the future.

[13:02] Tara Bansal: Uh huh. And wow. I felt like I very much identify with that. I’ve made some progress on my own of enjoying my money. I feel like. And it sounds like from reading your book you also,

[13:19] you know, and maybe that’s part of the timing for you to the intuition of putting the book down during certain times was your own growth and journey to be able to share later the,

[13:37] the responsible one.

[13:40] So I,

[13:42] I call myself a recovering perfectionist and over identified with this character. I’ll call it a character in the book.

[13:52] Liz Hand: Yes.

[13:52] Tara Bansal: Um, and part of me was like it felt like you were writing it for those that are exactly like me.

[14:02] And I had the question of like how prevalent is this character?

[14:08] Do you have an answer to that?

[14:11] Liz Hand: Well,

[14:12] it’s interesting.

[14:14] I’m going to answer your question very indirectly. The, the, the big answer is no,

[14:19] I don’t know exactly. But what I do know is that firstborns are often trained in this way.

[14:27] And yet I am not a firstborn.

[14:29] Tara Bansal: I’m not either.

[14:30] Liz Hand: And so my brother and I co own pleasant wealth. We both have these traits. He is the firstborn.

[14:37] And so another place I’ve seen is like the eldest daughter. People talk about that and that’s becoming more of a conversation out there.

[14:45] Again, I am not the eldest daughter.

[14:48] So while I think those traits are true, that kind of helps someone start getting trained towards the responsible one when they’re very young.

[14:56] There’s also,

[14:58] like I said, immigration.

[15:00] So if you have a child that is bilingual and the parent only speaks one language and the child is having to step in on business decisions and all the negotiations,

[15:13] naturally they’re being trained to be more and more responsible and they’re treated well because of that, because they’re able to keep their family safe and all of that for me I had a childhood sickness that I think was kind of the impetus for me to step up and not want to put too much of a burden on the family during that sickness.

[15:36] But, yeah, I think it’s formed a lot of different ways. I think the people I’m speaking to are the people that make our society run really well and keep things fair and honest and true.

[15:47] And yet they’re feeling very stuck in their role and don’t know how to talk about it because everybody is giving them lots of clapping, you know, accolades and like, you’re doing great.

[15:57] And they’re, first of all, they’re not receiving it. They’re like, thanks, thanks. Okay, no, stop. Stop acknowledging me. I need to stay below the radar.

[16:05] Then also,

[16:07] they feel very bound and stuck in the center of a lot of relationships and are not sure how to find themselves within the context of those relationships. And so the story arc of the book is them identifying how stuck they feel in the center of all of these different relationships and responsibilities,

[16:25] peeling themselves out to understand themself so that they can go back and really serve in the ways that’s true to them,

[16:33] but with a much more.

[16:36] Equal.

[16:38] A lot more.

[16:39] I don’t know, what’s the word?

[16:45] Tara Bansal: The word that comes to mind for me is authentic.

[16:48] Liz Hand: Yeah,

[16:49] for sure. And I think what I’m trying to point to is like this, equal. Like I’m bringing something to the table and you’re bringing something to the table. And I’m not going to over commit if you’re not there with me.

[17:00] But if you’re there, I’m going to step up and we’re going to do this together. But if you’re not, it’s okay. I don’t have to overperform in this way anymore.

[17:08] Tara Bansal: Yes. And I, I do feel like I overperform and. Is that the term Brene Brown uses? I’m trying to think.

[17:22] Liz Hand: I’m not sure.

[17:23] I’ll be honest.

[17:25] Like, part of the birthing of the book process is I turned off all other books and I stopped taking in content of other people,

[17:31] which is because

[17:32] Tara Bansal: you mentioned that in the podcast last year and I didn’t really know that.

[17:38] I just was.

[17:39] That was so neat to like really listen to yourself and focus on yourself instead of getting all these inputs from so many other places.

[17:50] I would love to hear more about your discovery and journey with genuine joy.

[18:00] What.

[18:01] What are you willing to share around that?

[18:03] Liz Hand: Yeah, what, what sparks your curiosity within that? Because that can go a lot of different directions.

[18:10] Tara Bansal: And I’ll.

[18:12] I’ll Speak for kind of part of my background was I was married for almost 10 years and went through a very,

[18:21] for me, traumatic divorce.

[18:24] And after my divorce, it was like the first time that I thought of like, what do I want?

[18:35] And I struggled with.

[18:40] Was interesting for me just to be like. And I, I guess I feel like that’s still common. And I don’t know how much of it is all women or just a subset of women,

[18:52] high achievers,

[18:55] responsible ones that we try to take care of all those around us that then we don’t really know what we want and don’t even think about that.

[19:09] And that holds us stuck.

[19:12] So that’s part of where I’m coming from on just like wanting more of that in my own life.

[19:18] Liz Hand: Yeah.

[19:19] Tara Bansal: How can I do that?

[19:22] Liz Hand: Yeah. What comes up for me is, is the lens of attention. And when you are that caring type of person that wants to.

[19:29] Incapable,

[19:33] efficient, optimizing. Like when you’re that type of person and that’s how you approach your life.

[19:39] You, you,

[19:40] you’ve trained your attention to be reading the room of what’s going on all around you.

[19:46] And that attention isn’t then turned towards, towards yourself. And it actually feels more scary to turn it back towards yourself because you are.

[19:55] You’re generating like a sense of belonging based on what’s happening in the room.

[20:00] So trusting yourself enough and the people around you enough to start turning that attention inward is a real act of trust.

[20:10] Um, like, it does shift the relationships for a period of time because people,

[20:15] you’re not the one that’s volunteering every time. You’re not the one that’s making sure it looks pristine before it goes out the door.

[20:23] You are giving other people the chance to step up and to make a mistake.

[20:30] And so as you start turning your attention inward, a lot of times what I hear from my coaching clients is it’s uncomfortable to sit still.

[20:38] I sit down and then I remember that there’s laundry to do, so I go do that.

[20:44] I sit down and then my spouse or my kids or, or my friend calls me and they have something that they need and I get up and do that. It’s.

[20:53] It’s just this place of attention to the ur. The urgent of other people around me, the needs of other people around me, and being in that discomfort of sitting alone in the quiet,

[21:03] following little intuitive pops that you have of like, oh, I think I’m gonna go get ice cream or actually painting sounds really kind of fun right now. Or please just give me a book and everybody leave me For a while.

[21:14] I’d like to get lost in this story.

[21:18] Within all of those, we get these little intuitive pops that help us understand what it is that we really want,

[21:25] but we have to slow down enough to see it. And oftentimes we’re so overbooked and we don’t even recognize it.

[21:33] No,

[21:34] I agree.

[21:35] Yeah. I’m sure you’ve run into this. I’ve run into it with my own calendar. But one of my clients shared with me that her EA told her,

[21:43] like, you don’t have any gaps in your schedule. This is the most booked calendar that I have.

[21:48] And the conversation before that was,

[21:52] I’m just, I’m not. I’m.

[21:54] I feel like I’m not doing enough or something around the. Trying to fit more in.

[21:59] And it’s, it’s just this, like, we’ve normalized that having a completely booked calendar, that going from one event to the next to the next to being at an event like 3/4 of the amount of time that it is so that you can get to the next one on time is normal.

[22:17] And it’s. It doesn’t, it doesn’t have to be normal. You actually can have more spaciousness in your day.

[22:22] Tara Bansal: Yeah. And to intentionally choose that.

[22:27] But it is a shift.

[22:30] And going back to what you were saying,

[22:33] I feel like it’s breaking the patterns, especially like with the people around us who are used to us taking care of things or doing things a certain way.

[22:44] And with our schedule, like,

[22:47] I try to not schedule things on Mondays and Fridays, work wise. But yet I’m still.

[22:57] I feel like overly cramming in more stuff.

[23:02] Liz Hand: You rationalize it, it might be a slight var. You might say, like, okay, I’m not gonna do this kind of work, but this book is a side project. It’s kind of fun and I’m doing it for myself, so I’m gonna work on that.

[23:13] Which is another form of work.

[23:16] We just trick ourselves over and over.

[23:18] Tara Bansal: Like doing this podcast. Right, Right.

[23:20] Liz Hand: Yeah, exactly. It is fun and it’s fun. There is a component of it that is very life giving and generates a lot of curiosity.

[23:27] But then it quickly turns into.

[23:30] It’s. It’s like how perfectionism just sneaks in and,

[23:34] and causes us to start measuring it and perfecting it and growing it and all of the things that snap us right back into the pattern that we were trying to break to begin with.

[23:45] Tara Bansal: So for you and the, the genuine joy, how has that evolved for you over the past? I’m going to just say five, five, six, Years started.

[23:59] Liz Hand: Um,

[24:00] I have it. It took me a bit to.

[24:04] I think it was a two or three year gap between me finding what I actually wanted money to be for me.

[24:12] I highlight in the beginning, in the very intro of the book, that when I saw the money symbol, the first feeling that came to mind for me was the word responsible, which is, you know, a lot of the context of the book.

[24:23] Um,

[24:24] but finding your genuine joy, creating enough spaciousness to actually know, like, what do I want money to be? Money can be anything. Money is connected to all areas of our life.

[24:34] So what is the most invigorating,

[24:37] most authentic way of relating to money and the word that I finally came to after a good number of, of,

[24:45] you know, hours of just sitting in quiet, sitting in my hot tub conversations,

[24:51] I came to the word creativity. And I was like, oh,

[24:54] if money can be creativity, then I want that all day, every day. I love creativity.

[24:59] And what I realized in the last five or six years is as I was processing all of the,

[25:07] the mindset work that I was doing for myself,

[25:10] I was processing it through art. And like, I even have one right in front of me, um, that I’ve been keeping with me as I’m getting ready for the book.

[25:18] Um,

[25:19] I was learning how to play. I learned how to play hundreds of songs on the piano and sing with it.

[25:24] Um, I did a lot of painting, collaging.

[25:27] And earlier this year,

[25:32] for whatever reason, I decided to just bring all of my art together and lay it out. And so there were months which behind me, I had it just all over my floor,

[25:42] like one piece after the other.

[25:44] And I just sat with it for the year. And I realized, like, this is what gives me the most satisfaction,

[25:53] is this sense of playful creativeness.

[25:57] Creativity. Creativeness isn’t a word. Creativity that like, sparks something deeper. And I, it’s, it’s I.

[26:05] For the truest part of Liz to come into the world,

[26:08] it is a sense of a lightheartedness that like, hits you in the heart, that almost makes you want to cry.

[26:15] And that’s just who I am. And the more I embrace that part of me and let that come forth, the happier I am. I show up so much different in my close relationships.

[26:25] I show up different at the office, I show up different with clients. I’m having different conversations because I’m letting me be myself truly that authentic, joy filled, like,

[26:35] wellspring of joy that comes in bounds.

[26:41] Tara Bansal: Wow, that’s beautiful. And I remember after our conversation from the first season, like, that was what was most memorable to me.

[26:55] Was your creativity and how you were making time for it and incorporating it. And,

[27:04] uh, do you.

[27:05] Do you feel like even then, you already knew that?

[27:10] Like, a year ago,

[27:12] I think last

[27:12] Liz Hand: year I would have defined that money to that creativity is the way that I access the most expansiveness, abundance in life and in money.

[27:22] Um,

[27:23] but I.

[27:25] In bringing all of my art together and putting it on the floor and, like, looking at all of the music that I learned over that time,

[27:33] calling myself an artist feels very edgy. But I’m like, oh, I am an artist.

[27:38] Tara Bansal: Oh, you are an artist. Like, to be. I’m in shock that there’s any resistance to that.

[27:46] Liz Hand: Feels so. Like,

[27:48] it feels dangerous. Like, being the responsible one, it’s much more easy for me to be like, I’m the financial planner. I help you organize the things. I’m a business owner.

[27:56] I make sure my employees have everything they need.

[27:59] Um,

[27:59] I’m a coach.

[28:01] I help somebody find the life that’s most important to them and shed all of the limiting beliefs. Beside that,

[28:08] that feels like an easier grab. But if. If we go to the artistic side of me, I’m like, but there’s artists down the street from me in this arts district that our office is in that are incredible.

[28:18] They spend a lot more time. They’ve been doing this for a longer period of time, and they get paid for it.

[28:25] For me,

[28:26] like, this is this. This piece of art.

[28:30] This is 625 for those that are watching along.

[28:33] It meant something to me when I was doing it, but would.

[28:37] I don’t know that it has the same meaning to other people.

[28:40] And I think that’s okay.

[28:43] It’s just coming to terms with who I am and letting myself, like, flex a little bit more.

[28:50] Tara Bansal: But it still seems like a avenue that gets you besides giving you joy, but actually brings more abundance in every.

[29:05] What you’re describing is with your relationships, with your work, with, like, it’s like your best self,

[29:12] then is showing up more and more through having access to that creativity and doing that. Is that.

[29:20] Liz Hand: Yeah, I agree.

[29:23] Tara Bansal: Okay. Yeah. I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but that’s what I’m hearing.

[29:27] Liz Hand: Totally. So.

[29:28] Tara Bansal: Okay. I’d love to hear more about the play. Did that come before or after the book?

[29:38] Liz Hand: It came after the book. It was pretty soon.

[29:41] I’m going to say it was early 2024. So I had written the initial, like, 60% of the book.

[29:47] And I am a regular breathwork person.

[29:50] Love it.

[29:52] And in one of my breathwork sessions, I had been Asking, like, what is the purpose of this book if I was supposed to set it down? Cause I was in a period of, like, set this down, don’t pay attention to it.

[30:02] And what’s the purpose of this? Why?

[30:05] And I just kept asking, what’s the purpose? What’s the purpose? What’s the purpose? And the response I received was the word actress.

[30:12] And I was pretty stumped. Like, I didn’t. I don’t have any family members or any,

[30:20] like, close people to me that are pursuing acting in any way. And so I didn’t know what it meant.

[30:27] So I kept it quiet. I didn’t tell a soul.

[30:30] Didn’t even tell the breathwork person, the coach.

[30:32] Tara Bansal: Not even your coach or.

[30:33] Liz Hand: No, didn’t say it to anybody because I was like,

[30:36] I didn’t even tell my husband.

[30:38] I just kind of held it and didn’t know what to do with it. And there were a series of events of getting connected to someone who. Who has been in my life for a good 10 years.

[30:54] Ish.

[30:55] That helped me end up co writing the play. And then he’s directing it. He helped me hire an actor out of Cleveland.

[31:02] Um,

[31:02] and so we’ll be performing it three times at the end of September.

[31:08] We’ve got a local performance. I’ve got a private performance for my BD RIA that I’m affiliated with. And then I’ll be performing publicly at the XY Planning Network live, which is when that is.

[31:22] October 1st.

[31:23] Tara Bansal: Oh, so exciting.

[31:25] Liz Hand: That will be fun.

[31:26] Tara Bansal: Yeah. So have you done it yet? It sounds like you did a beta version or not.

[31:32] Liz Hand: We did a bunch of play. We did three play readings to test audiences. Again, kind of back to our original question, like, who am I speaking to?

[31:41] And it was quite interesting because at the financial planner, I. I delivered one of the play readings at Limitless.

[31:50] And the whole room there, there’s just this one section of the. Of the play where I read some statements. And you stand and sit. If it applies to you, whole room, up, down, up, down.

[32:01] Every time, like, everybody’s looking around like, what’s happening?

[32:05] Um, that was super fun. And then I delivered it to a group of family and friends. And that was lesser, so it didn’t hit everybody.

[32:14] And then I delivered it to a group, a local women’s group that I’m in for women in their professional life.

[32:22] And that room, again, saw a lot of people standing and sitting. And so I think it’s highly prevalent for women. I think it’s highly prevalent for financial planners. And then I think there’s some other subsets of people that it applies to.

[32:33] But,

[32:35] yeah, so I’ve. I’ve tested the audiences. I feel really good about it,

[32:40] made some tweaks to the script to. To really let it have the tone that I want.

[32:47] And then we have not formally performed it yet,

[32:51] still in our final practices.

[32:55] And it’s been.

[32:57] I recently read a. Read a story about a woman who was doing some art in, like, formally in a college and was trying to get a piece together, and the piece wasn’t coming together.

[33:09] And at the same time, her parents were going through a divorce.

[33:13] And so she goes to her instructor and is like, I can’t get these pieces to stay in the way that I need it to.

[33:19] And the instructor told her, like, isn’t that interesting that you have two pieces that have come apart and you can’t get them back together? And at the same time,

[33:27] your parents. Your parents are going through this divorce. Like,

[33:30] the art is working you through this grief.

[33:35] In the same way, this play, as I’ve been practicing for it and trying to memorize it and, like,

[33:41] trying to open myself up in a way that feels very, like, natural in some ways, but also very daunting in other ways,

[33:50] the art is working me.

[33:53] I’ve had multiple, like,

[33:55] personal breakdowns of.

[33:58] I don’t know if I can memorize this. I don’t know if I’m going to be able to perform this in the way that it needs to. And just recognizing that this is me party,

[34:06] learning to put down my perfectionism in performance,

[34:10] that maybe on stage I will forget a line and it’s okay. Like, it actually doesn’t.

[34:16] It doesn’t detract from the underlying message that is getting out there and is, like, coming forth from me whether or not I’m ready.

[34:24] Tara Bansal: And a little bit of improv,

[34:27] embracing that. I don’t know how much, but it sounds like you’re definitely,

[34:35] I don’t know,

[34:36] trying something new. And I was gonna. Are you enjoying the actress part?

[34:42] Liz Hand: I am, I think,

[34:44] like, piecing back some memories. Throughout my life, there have been moments where people have seen me in quasi actress mode. And they’re like, you are so good on stage. You are great in front of people.

[34:56] You have to figure out how you can speak to people.

[34:59] Tara Bansal: This other part of you comes like that. Like, it’s kind of, you know, little glimmers of what’s to come. And hearing that.

[35:08] Liz Hand: Yeah.

[35:09] And the director,

[35:11] you’ve just. At our last rehearsal, he said so there are moments when you look like you’re Having so much fun on stage,

[35:19] and those are the points where it’s really flowing. And then there’s moments where I can tell that you are frustrated with yourself and judging, and you look. You look like you hate it there on stage.

[35:30] It’s like, oh, okay.

[35:32] But I really want to get.

[35:34] It’s. It’s so interesting because I want to get the words right because I want the message to carry, but part of it is trusting that the message is going to carry anyway.

[35:42] Tara Bansal: Yeah. Huh. One question I had is you share a lot about yourself and even your family. How. How was that for you?

[35:58] Liz Hand: And from what respect

[36:01] Tara Bansal: was it? Was the. Was there any fear? Any, like, did you have to get approval from your husband? Like, talking about.

[36:14] Liz Hand: That’s a good question.

[36:15] Tara Bansal: Oh, my goodness.

[36:16] Liz Hand: When Nate hears this, he’s like. He’s gonna be like,

[36:18] she never asked me for any kind of approval.

[36:23] I guess I didn’t, and perhaps I should have for some of those. But I did try to be really true to my perspective and not project onto anybody else.

[36:33] Um, so any of those stories that I shared,

[36:37] I wanted it to radically come from my point of view and from what I was learning through it. Not about speaking about our relationship in any way or putting their lens of the story in too much.

[36:52] So there’s a couple of times where I share some different pieces in the story. Some of it’s marriage, some of it’s family, some of it’s team.

[37:02] And I did try to honor.

[37:04] Just, you know, these are the people in my life. Yeah.

[37:08] Tara Bansal: All right. I don’t know why I always wonder that,

[37:11] because I just feel like when you’re being vulnerable,

[37:15] it’s hard not to,

[37:18] I don’t know, involve other people, because they’re part of your life, too.

[37:23] Liz Hand: So I. I was just curious. I. I don’t know what their relationship is with the book, because I’ve. I feel like it’s not my business to ask.

[37:33] If they want to offer it, then they can. But I. I think some of my family members just simply haven’t read it. And that’s okay,

[37:44] because, you know, we all have our fears and what we’re willing to be with and not willing to be with. They’re pretty familiar with my sharing process.

[37:52] Tara Bansal: All right. Thank you.

[37:54] Liz Hand: Yeah.

[37:57] Tara Bansal: I feel like it’s an important part of the book.

[38:01] On page 57,

[38:04] you talk about the 150% ownership of a relationship.

[38:13] I would love for you to explain that and talk through that, if you don’t mind. I don’t know.

[38:21] You mind taking the Time to do it. But I’d love to.

[38:24] For me, this is,

[38:26] I. I feel like it’s a lesson I need to hear and understand better.

[38:32] So I’m inviting you to.

[38:35] Liz Hand: Yeah, I will. I’ll give a little flash of that page for anybody who’s watching over the video. And you can see this is the image that we’re talking about on your right.

[38:46] So I just got this book today and oh my goodness, it feels good in my hands,

[38:52] first time holding it. But.

[38:55] So this is that scanning the room type of process and entering a room, entering a relationship, and looking to see what the other person needs, what’s their motivations.

[39:08] It ends up really helping you be a good financial planner, good event planner, good pastor, good social worker, because you’re, you are looking beyond what’s on the surface to really dig deep in what’s happening with that person behind the scenes of their life, whether or not they are aware of it.

[39:25] So in the relationship, I, I talk about a relationship being two sides of a coin.

[39:31] The front side of the coin is everything that you see that happens in the relationship.

[39:35] Taste, see, touch, smell, hear, tangible, practical on the surface.

[39:39] Um, and then the backside of the coin are these underlying motivations, biases,

[39:45] thoughts, feelings, projections,

[39:49] expectations, desires, needs.

[39:52] And the,

[39:53] the hard thing about the backside of the coin for everybody is that you have to understand yourself enough to even articulate what’s on the backside of the coin for you.

[40:07] And so what I find is that with this responsible person,

[40:10] they’re entering their relationships, scanning and looking of course, what’s on the surface of the relationship and making sure that’s working well both sides of the street. So that first 100% the top of the coin,

[40:23] but then they’re also naturally looking under the coin on the other person’s side of the street. So they’re looking to see what’s motivating them, what their desires are, what their needs are, and trying to see if they can help meet them in some way, shape or form.

[40:36] But what they leave off the table is their own side of the street, the back of the coin.

[40:41] And so I’m calling this, you know, if a full relationship,

[40:44] both the top and the bottom is 200%, because we got my side, your side at the top, my side, your side at the back,

[40:54] then the responsible one is taking a lot of ownership of 150% of the relationship. But they’re really not addressing their own wants, desires, needs, projections, expectations in the relationship.

[41:05] And by ignoring those one, they’re overstepping with the other person because they’re not letting the other person own their. Their full side of the street.

[41:16] Then two, they’re not owning their own side of the street in its fullness. And so they quickly get into a resentment with. Within that relationship because they feel like my needs aren’t being met, but they’re not actually articulating them or even really understanding them for themselves.

[41:32] Tara Bansal: That helps a lot. I.

[41:37] And this is my interpretation of that. So is on the other side, where I think of it as more of the hidden things that you can’t, you know, aren’t see, smell, hear, or touch,

[41:52] that those responsible ones are trying to read the other person’s mind, read everything that is hidden,

[42:05] to proactively anticipate it and take care of it,

[42:12] and not letting the other person vocalize that or admit to whatever those things are.

[42:22] And yet what I’m hearing, I think this is part of what I was missing, is they’re not vocalizing their own hidden things,

[42:31] possibly to themselves,

[42:33] but definitely not to the other person.

[42:37] And what,

[42:42] what are the consequences of that?

[42:46] Liz Hand: Yeah, I mean, what’s it like when someone assumes in your life why you’re doing something that you’re doing in the relationship?

[42:54] Tara Bansal: Well, I always think of the teacher assume makes an *** out of you and out of me.

[43:00] Liz Hand: Yes. And then on a practical sense, what’s it like? Just picture one relationship

[43:09] Tara Bansal: and this is where part of me wants to argue, like with my husband.

[43:14] I want him to try to read my mind and know what I want where I don’t have to tell him.

[43:22] And.

[43:23] And yet when he guesses wrong,

[43:27] I then get upset.

[43:30] And so that’s part of my reaction is something I want, but when it doesn’t go well,

[43:37] I get even more upset.

[43:40] Liz Hand: Yeah.

[43:41] Tara Bansal: And that’s not. I realize that’s not fair to him.

[43:45] Liz Hand: Sure.

[43:46] I’ve articulated it and I still am learning this within my marriage relationship. Like, that’s our. One of our tightest relationships and a lot of safety is built around that. So a lot of graciousness to ourselves as we learn it in that space.

[44:01] If we take like even a much lower stakes relationship, you’re at the, you’re at the coffee shop and the barista’s there. And they’re like, what do you want?

[44:14] Like, I don’t know what I want.

[44:17] What do you like?

[44:20] And the barista’s like, well, I like a white chocolate mocha. And you’re like, that sounds great, I’ll have that.

[44:25] You drink it. And you’re like, oh, this is way too Sweet. I hate this.

[44:29] That whole process is you not really taking the time to ask yourself, do I want something savory? Do I want something sweet? What kind of price range do I want?

[44:37] Because it feels like too much effort. So you’re relinquishing your power to somebody else to make a guess, make a stab in the dark, and give you a drink that you want and that you’re willing to pay for.

[44:49] And they’re doing it based on their own wants and desires. Maybe under the under hidden desires or, you know, on the top of the coin.

[44:56] Um,

[44:57] that just highlights it in a different kind of you wouldn’t we do that? I do that when I go to the coffee shop.

[45:04] Um, and I’m trying to practice not doing that because I feel like if I can get. Nail it in that area where I’m like, asking myself, what do I actually want today?

[45:13] Let me pick off of the menu for myself and my price range and all of that, then I can take it into some of those more substantial relationships where there’s more at stake.

[45:24] Where.

[45:25] Tara Bansal: But start small and start small. Yeah.

[45:27] Liz Hand: That’s why I think money is such a great mirror for us.

[45:30] And if we can practice just looking at these transactions that we’re making every single day and the ways that we’re deferring our relationships or really not owning our side of the street or overstepping.

[45:44] So here’s. Here’s another example of overstepping in a financial situation.

[45:49] My sister getting ready to purchase something. Let’s say it’s plane tickets or something.

[45:55] She starts down the process of doing the plane ticket thing. I step in and say, well, no, you don’t want to do it that way. You actually want to go to this website.

[46:02] This is how you do that. Da da da da da. She didn’t ask me for my help.

[46:07] I’m assuming I’m taking more. I’m taking 100 for 50% of the relationship. And, like,

[46:11] actually, let me. Let me control this for you. So, again, this is a place where if I can step out of some financial transactions in that way,

[46:18] I can maybe practice it in some of other relationships,

[46:22] which, okay, my sister is a good relationship that is close to me and is a place that it’s harder to practice with versus a barista. But,

[46:32] yeah. What does that bring up for you?

[46:35] Tara Bansal: It brings up for me.

[46:38] I feel like this is a coaching session, but especially around parenting as a parent too often trying to make things easier for our kids, but then we are taking away them.

[46:58] Having that learning and having that Independence and them even figuring out what they want instead of knowing, oh, this is what mom wants or something,

[47:09] or this is how mom thinks it should be done.

[47:12] And so that’s part of what comes up for me.

[47:17] Liz Hand: Yeah.

[47:17] Tara Bansal: Wanting my kids to have their own opinions and independence and things like that.

[47:25] Liz Hand: So funny. I highlight the quote from Maria Montessori,

[47:30] what you do for me, you take from me,

[47:33] which was a quote that I saw in one of the brochures of my kids going into a Montessori school. And to that point, like, my kids will fold laundry for their teacher.

[47:45] Will they do it for me?

[47:47] No.

[47:48] Because what I do for them, I take from them. And they’ve learned that. And they milk that. And I also feel uncomfortable with the process of just letting them do their thing.

[47:57] But in that setting, like, I’ve seen the.

[48:01] The distinction of where a teacher comes in and uses a different approach and gets different results in their relationships.

[48:08] Tara Bansal: Yeah. And I’ve also seen with my.

[48:13] My boys like them feeling proud of, like, figuring something out or feeling like they’re making a contribution.

[48:22] And I love that quote.

[48:24] To apply not just to as parents, but to our other relationships too.

[48:31] Liz Hand: Yeah. So in that it’s kind of what we were talking about earlier, of circling back and meeting relationships as equals.

[48:39] If I can do that,

[48:41] I match them. I get to honor their pride that they have in the work that they do,

[48:47] whether it’s my colleague or my child or my spouse or a client.

[48:54] And if they want. Or friend or a friend. And if they want to exceed even further, I’ll match their stride.

[49:00] If they don’t,

[49:02] there’s no extra effort that has to go into that to make them do something that they never wanted to do to begin with.

[49:09] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[49:11] I think sometimes that’s hard.

[49:13] When,

[49:15] like, how much to help do you feel like that comes up?

[49:22] I don’t know. That’s my reaction of like, they say they want to.

[49:26] Liz Hand: And yet.

[49:28] Tara Bansal: And I think you gave an example of that in the book of, like,

[49:33] asking more questions instead of jumping in to help.

[49:38] To help. Trying to help them find their own way.

[49:41] Liz Hand: Yeah.

[49:42] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[49:43] Liz Hand: I think when someone.

[49:44] You’ll see it.

[49:46] Let’s see, what kind of relationship can we use that doesn’t feel too.

[49:51] In my space.

[49:52] So let’s say it’s somebody that I’m volunteering at an organization and it’s one of the clients of the organization. And let’s say I’m doing pro bono financial planning.

[50:05] And the piece that we need is for them to bring statements to the meeting and they bring some statements, but maybe they’re missing one. And it’s actually kind of a key piece.

[50:17] Maybe it’s the, like, the budget, you know, like, how much are you actually spending? And they’re like, ah, I don’t know. I can’t. I can’t get it. And there’s.

[50:27] Until they allow themselves to get it and to bring that fully to the table,

[50:33] you are dragging them around in something that they’re not committed to anyway. It’s. It’s like coaching. You know, this from. With your clients. Like, as soon as they’re willing to step up and take the action,

[50:44] they’re going to get way more out of the engagement than not. And me slowing down and letting them struggle is actually really helpful for that engagement, for that financial plan, for them to feel better about their money.

[50:56] Yeah. Um, so too, in our other relationships,

[51:00] Tara Bansal: what comes up for me is the mush inside the chrysalis that, like, to become a butterfly, it has to struggle in order to be able to fly.

[51:11] Like, if you cut it open, it will never be able to fly. So that we need the struggle to learn. I think so often when I think back on my life,

[51:21] most of my growth,

[51:23] unfortunately or fortunately happened during some of the hardest times. That.

[51:29] Liz Hand: Yeah.

[51:29] Tara Bansal: You know. Yeah.

[51:31] Liz Hand: And I think when. When we are in a helper position,

[51:35] there’s a way that we want to take away that hurt from other people.

[51:39] But if we do, if each of us look back at our own lives and what formed us to be this responsible one,

[51:47] we will see that the struggle brought the gold that we’re using in a completely different way.

[51:53] So rather than overstepping in that relationship and taking on 150%, just meet them where they are.

[51:59] They will sort themselves out.

[52:00] It’s.

[52:01] It’s such a sacred act of trust in a relationship, and it really does create more connection, which is another tenet of the real financial freedom that I talk about.

[52:10] Tara Bansal: Yeah. To me, I feel like a lot of what we’re talking about doesn’t really relate to money.

[52:17] Liz Hand: Isn’t that delicious?

[52:21] Tara Bansal: And you do give some examples in the book of,

[52:26] like,

[52:27] I don’t know, putting off your meeting with your financial advisor or not, you know, taking different actions or.

[52:36] But I don’t know. That’s what just came to me. Is that so much of our conversation, we haven’t really been talking about money, we’ve been talking about ourselves, which is the whole money is a mirror.

[52:47] Liz Hand: And that’s something that I have kind of worked through and finessed as I was making the book is like,

[52:53] how much do I need to be talking about money specifically?

[52:56] And yet money is subconscious.

[52:59] We just use it in the ways that we use it. And so for the person that’s really wanting to look at the way that they’re making financial transactions,

[53:09] all of their relationships are going to end. The ways that they operate in relationship shows there. Because money is exchange and relationship is exchange.

[53:18] And so that’s why I’m talking about.

[53:20] Money is the mirror that reflects our relationship with ourselves. It reflects our relationship with others. It reflects our relationship with a higher power or God, however you’d like to say it.

[53:31] And so we can use it as a tool and as a training ground. Like, if I can work on my transactions, my coffee transactions,

[53:39] financial transactions,

[53:41] and learn how to treat myself with this intuitive,

[53:45] let that intuition grow,

[53:47] and I can learn how to trust this other person and let that connection be different,

[53:54] then I can take that into other avenues of my life.

[54:00] Tara Bansal: Wonderful.

[54:02] One question I had,

[54:05] or another question is,

[54:08] it’s on page 91,

[54:10] but I.

[54:11] How would you describe the difference between a gut reaction out of fear versus out of possibility and trust?

[54:24] And I feel like as a coach and with myself as a client,

[54:30] this is a real struggle.

[54:33] So I’d love to hear more of what advice you have or how to describe the difference between those two.

[54:42] Liz Hand: Yeah,

[54:45] our body is such a guide for us.

[54:48] And when you are someone who has made your life around a lot of heady things,

[54:55] optimization,

[54:57] planning,

[54:58] making life work, you’re in your head a lot and you’re actually not physically in your body.

[55:03] And it will be hard to, at the onset to under. To distinguish the difference between what is for me and what is a reaction that I’m having.

[55:15] But one thing I’ve learned in the pro, like, I haven’t made all perfect financial decisions as I’ve honed intuition and connection and provision.

[55:27] But I’m.

[55:29] I also trust that in the moment when I make a financial decision. Here’s. Here’s one financial decision that I made.

[55:36] Um,

[55:37] I spent. It was probably like $600 on a promo video for the.

[55:43] For the play.

[55:44] But I did it based off of the play reading. And so it doesn’t really, like,

[55:48] zing. It’s not like a conference would see that and be like,

[55:51] that’s the one.

[55:52] Because we’re reading out of books.

[55:54] My marketing person told me this, and I was like, no, no, no, we’re doing this. Have to do it. Have to follow the. The intuitive pop. Whatever, I’ll pay whatever I need to pay.

[56:03] And I have sent it out a couple of times, but it’s. It’s not super usable.

[56:10] So that was actually out of a fear that I was going to miss the wave of excitement that initially was happening at the moments during the reading.

[56:19] And so not a perfect financial decision.

[56:25] But I also trust everything that came after that and all of the realizations. And the more I let myself have those little gut reactions that are out of fear,

[56:37] then I can define them better. And it feels physically different in my body, but I could tell you how it feels for me.

[56:44] Each of us have to find how it feels for us,

[56:47] and I agree with that.

[56:48] Tara Bansal: I do think that is key. And the more coaching I do, the more I feel like tuning into your body is so important.

[57:03] Just out of curiosity, how would you describe the difference for you in your body?

[57:08] Liz Hand: Just so when I have something that I know is for me, I have this lightning bolt, is what I call it. And it goes from my head down to my gut and back up.

[57:18] Okay. It happened when I met my husband or when we went on our first date. I had that feeling. I was like, oh, this is the one. And I knew right away.

[57:27] Um,

[57:28] I had that feeling with our home purchase.

[57:31] I have had that feeling in a lot of different places.

[57:34] Tara Bansal: Um, so you know that feeling, Like,

[57:38] Liz Hand: I know that feeling.

[57:38] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[57:39] Liz Hand: Yes.

[57:40] Um, when I’ve made financial decisions or other decisions from a place of fear, I think there is more.

[57:46] A little bit more tension in my chest and an urgency in my gut. And so I think it. It mimics it a little bit in that it’s in multiple places, but it is slightly different.

[57:57] Can I define it in the moment? Like,

[58:00] okay, we humans, we make decisions from a place of feeling, and then we rationalize them logically. Every single person does that. Any human being on the planet,

[58:13] some people are quicker to go to the logic side and really put out the data, but at the end of the day, they. They make it from a place of feeling.

[58:21] So getting used to noticing the feeling is really helpful. And what I’ll offer to each of those who are listening and to you is to find the place where your body feels the most at home.

[58:34] So for some of you that might be out in amongst the trees,

[58:38] for some of you that might be in the ocean, for some of you that might be,

[58:43] you know, in an airplane or, you know, I don’t. I don’t know what it is,

[58:47] but each of us have this. This sense of self that we can tap into and get more in tune with our body. And for Me, that’s the hot tub, which I talk about making that purchase.

[59:01] I kind of knew that water was a thing for me as soon as I bought it. My younger brother was like,

[59:06] you were always the one that was like going to the pool right away, like going to a hotel. You were the one that made sure that we all had our swimsuits.

[59:13] Of course, water is the thing for you. Um,

[59:17] but anyway, yeah,

[59:19] giving yourself that spaciousness in the place where your body feels most at home allows you to tap more into what am I physically sensing in this moment.

[59:28] Tara Bansal: And I think to your point, like, start trying to notice and just keep looking and feeling and see what you gather from that information.

[59:42] Liz Hand: Yeah. It’s not as squishy as people think it is.

[59:46] People think that it’s like this squishy type of interaction that is not for them if they’re more logic based. But honestly I find that it’s data that’s really reliable when you get to know it.

[01:00:00] Tara Bansal: I do too. And it’s. Yeah. As a coach, like learning to pay attention to that, having the client be able to learn that for themselves.

[01:00:11] Liz Hand: Yeah.

[01:00:13] Tara Bansal: One of the most powerful things for me and.

[01:00:22] I just imagine and I, I’m. Part of me is afraid of saying this but like, of doing like a class or having more,

[01:00:34] more ways to dig into this book.

[01:00:37] Have you thought about that at all?

[01:00:40] Liz Hand: I’m an ideas person. I’ve thought of a lot of ideas. Um, I thought about retreats.

[01:00:48] Tara Bansal: Okay.

[01:00:48] Liz Hand: That’s been probably the primary idea of digging in further if conferences want to take because the, the play that I have really highlights the key points of the book,

[01:01:00] but doesn’t get into the how. And so I have the free framework that I’ve built around how we navigate life change and really transforming ourselves and getting free with money that I,

[01:01:14] I have like a beta version of it, but I haven’t fully fleshed it out.

[01:01:18] But yeah, I, I really like the idea of retreats. So that’s kind of in the back of my mind what’s stirring.

[01:01:25] Tara Bansal: Very cool.

[01:01:26] On page 93. This was what to me,

[01:01:31] if I had to say, what was the biggest takeaway?

[01:01:38] And there were so many, like with the coin with.

[01:01:42] There were a lot of big parts, but the questions.

[01:01:46] You had nine questions to ask yourself that will help you understand what financially free means for you.

[01:01:54] And I’m just going to read a couple of them but for intuition. If I trusted myself fully, how would I earn money differently?

[01:02:04] If I trusted myself fully, how would I hold money differently? And if I Trusted myself fully, how would I spend money differently?

[01:02:14] And so she has these questions for intuition,

[01:02:20] connection,

[01:02:21] and then provision.

[01:02:23] And I just, I haven’t even like really given those questions the time and space, but I felt like they were so powerful for me.

[01:02:37] Have you gotten feedback or. I’d love to hear more on if other people had the same reaction as I have.

[01:02:46] Liz Hand: I haven’t had somebody come back and give me their answers to that.

[01:02:50] But what I.

[01:02:52] One of the main beliefs I have with money is that it actually doesn’t matter how much money that you have.

[01:02:58] Finding this sense of intuition, connection and provision allows you to be financially free at any stage. And so I think where a lot of money coaches get it wrong is that it’s always more money is better,

[01:03:13] earning more, holding more, spending more is better.

[01:03:16] And I don’t believe that’s true. I don’t think that it might be true for some people, but I don’t think it’s true across the board for every single person.

[01:03:26] And so I have a hunch that for some people they would take a risk on themselves in a way that would reduce their income.

[01:03:34] Or there might be someone who takes a risk on themselves and earns way more money than they ever did before. And those for depending on what type of community that you live in, what kind of family you live in, those are risky endeavors that have relational consequences to them that you’ll sort out over time.

[01:03:55] But if you are true to yourself, those really are great questions to go through. And I’ve tweaked them just a bit since the copy that you saw.

[01:04:04] Tara Bansal: So, yeah, something to look forward to.

[01:04:09] Liz Hand: It’s a great place to spend some time journaling. Spend multiple days just thinking about like one tenant of each of those.

[01:04:16] Tara Bansal: Yes. And I plan to do that.

[01:04:18] So I’ll ask you a question and maybe this can be.

[01:04:21] If every woman listening remembered just one thing from our conversation today,

[01:04:30] what would you hope it would be?

[01:04:33] Liz Hand: Mm,

[01:04:35] I would hope that what they hear is that slowing down is the process to getting what you want.

[01:04:46] And that is usually fairly uncomfortable for high performing women.

[01:04:51] Um,

[01:04:53] and there’s so much freedom there.

[01:04:56] And so like one of my favorite little practices, if you want to do this on your own, to practice what it feels like to slow down is whatever your set point is when you’re driving on the highway, like if the speed limit is 65,

[01:05:13] Liz’s typical is like 72.

[01:05:16] Seven, you’re fine. Eight, you’re mine. So I go, I go with seven over.

[01:05:21] Tara Bansal: So apart we all have these Rules.

[01:05:23] Liz Hand: I know, right?

[01:05:26] Um,

[01:05:26] the practice for me would be driving 65 or 60 to just go slower and see what that feels like,

[01:05:38] because slowness is the path to what you want.

[01:05:41] Um, and that’s just one little place to practice and notice what comes up in your thoughts as you do.

[01:05:47] Tara Bansal: And that brings up for me,

[01:05:49] which I wrote down, but like the financial experiments. But I also feel like life experiments. So that to me, is it like a life experiment of trying something different and seeing what you notice and seeing how it feels and seeing what comes up?

[01:06:11] Liz Hand: Yeah, for sure.

[01:06:13] Tara Bansal: Anything on the financial experiments?

[01:06:16] Like, what came to mind for me is Morgan Houselike talks a lot about doing financial experiments.

[01:06:24] And why don’t you share more of what you talked about in the book around that?

[01:06:31] Liz Hand: Well, one thing I’ll just share from a personal like, aha, moment that I had just recently is when I am in a state of overwhelm,

[01:06:41] I make very fast financial decisions to get them off my plate so that I can do whatever else that I’m trying to move on with. And that is also where I go into making decisions from a place of fear.

[01:06:54] So that would be a place to cause myself to slow down.

[01:06:59] Give myself some sort of like 24 hour rule or some sort of touchpoint check in between so that I can slow myself down and really understand what it is that I want.

[01:07:13] Very nice.

[01:07:13] Tara Bansal: Yeah. So, Liz, what would you like to end with today? What are your last ending thoughts or

[01:07:22] Liz Hand: ideas for women who have spent their lives serving others and really being that responsible one?

[01:07:34] I hold a vision of you accessing the sense of personal freedom that comes with lightness,

[01:07:42] that comes with all of the connection that you’ve so desired in your closest relationships and in the world. And that allows you to bring forth this like soul level contribution that you want to make.

[01:07:55] And so as you encounter life as it unfolds,

[01:08:01] I hope that you see this divine intuition that you have and the divine connection that we have with other people and this divine sense of provision that things are being cared for without our effort as well,

[01:08:17] and that you can share that with others.

[01:08:21] Tara Bansal: Yes. That to me is the tenant of the book, is to have that trust and that faith and that freedom.

[01:08:29] Liz Hand: Yes. Yeah. And then what a world it will be as more. More people access that. That gives me goosebumps just thinking about.

[01:08:38] Tara Bansal: Mm, I can’t wait. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here. Liz’s book, Money is a Mirror is coming out, I think the end of September.

[01:08:49] Liz Hand: Yes, September 25th is the publishing date. Presale is live. You can go to my website lizhandcoaching.com and access the pre sale and it

[01:09:00] Tara Bansal: is well worth it I can tell you. I highly recommend it. So thank you Tara.

[01:09:05] Liz Hand: It’s been so fun to be here and hear the book through your eyes, through your words. It’s a real treat for me. Thank you.

[01:09:12] Tara Bansal: It was great.

[01:09:13] So thank you.

[01:09:15] My biggest takeaway from this incredible conversation with Liz is the importance of slowing down in order to get more of what we really want in our lives.

[01:09:26] If you know me, you know I have been saying this for years. It feels like forever that I want to do less and yet I still am not.

[01:09:40] My days are packed whether it’s a workday or not a work day and things are just scheduled back to back to back.

[01:09:50] So I loved Liz’s idea of experimenting and seeing how and what I can do to try to change this because I drastically want to slow down and do less.

[01:10:07] I need to notice when I’m overperforming and jumping in to help others and moving outside of my own lane and so noticing that.

[01:10:23] And I also think part of this slowing down is trusting to see what emerges when I do create this space and actually am doing less.

[01:10:36] I have a feeling I’m going to come back to this throughout the season because right now so many things in my life are pointing to this need and my desire to slowing down.

[01:10:51] And I hope maybe it will lead to more happiness,

[01:10:59] more satisfaction and the genuine joy that Liz talks about in this episode.

[01:11:06] Thanks for being here.

[01:11:08] Thank you for listening to her life, her practice, her way.

[01:11:12] I hope today’s conversation gave you something to think about and will help you slow down and hear yourself more clearly.

[01:11:19] If you know another woman who might enjoy or get something from this conversation,

[01:11:24] please share this episode with her.

[01:11:26] And until next time, I hope you’ll ask yourself the question I ask every guest and I keep coming back to you.

[01:11:34] What are you giving yourself permission to want right now?

Learn about or preorder Money Is a Mirror

Visit Liz Hand Coaching

Learn about the Money Is a Mirror keynote

Visit Pleasant Wealth

Since 2010, Elizabeth Hand, CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ and Associate Certified Coach has walked alongside people through life’s biggest financial decisions. Again and again, she discovered that money was rarely the real problem, it simply pointed to life underneath. In Money Is a Mirror, she invites you to look past the numbers and lean into that life you’ve been waiting for.

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