[00:17] Tara Bansal: Welcome to Her Life, Her Practice, Her Way, a podcast for and about women in financial planning.

[00:25] Tara Bansal: I’m Tara Conti Bansal, a financial planner and life coach.

[00:29] And I believe that when women thrive in this profession, we all win.

[00:34] As women, we’re often very good at taking care of everyone else and not nearly as good at asking ourselves what we need or what we really want.

[00:45] Through honest conversations,

[00:47] we’ll explore what it means to slow down,

[00:50] trust ourselves,

[00:52] and build a life and practice that feels true to who we are.

[00:57] There isn’t one right way. There’s only your way.

[01:02] Tara Bansal: Hello, and welcome to our second season of Her Life, Her Practice, Her Way.

[01:10] And I am absolutely thrilled to have Bridget Borel here with me today.

[01:18] I have admired her from afar.

[01:21] She is part of the Limitless program.

[01:24] Tara Bansal: And just on the calls, in the

[01:28] Tara Bansal: chat,

[01:29] seeing what she says and what she shared,

[01:33] I, from the beginning was like, I want to get to know her and her practice better.

[01:39] Um, she has lived a full life and been through various things that I identified with. And so,

[01:50] as I said, I’m just excited to have Bridget here today and have her share her wisdom with all of us. So welcome, Bridget.

[01:59] Bridget Borel: Oh, my goodness. Thank you. Such a kind intro. I’m delighted to be here.

[02:03] Tara Bansal: Thank you. We always start with, tell us your story, Brene Brown style. Like, where did you come from and how did you get where you are today?

[02:15] Bridget Borel: Sure.

[02:16] Well, I was born and raised in Louisiana, the youngest of three girls.

[02:22] Although I kind of grew up like an only child and that my sisters are 13 and 14 years older than me.

[02:29] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[02:30] Bridget Borel: But I think that,

[02:32] you know, growing up that way with all of my,

[02:35] you know, cousins and whatnot and even, like, neighbors,

[02:39] everyone was a little bit older than me. So I think that that kind of forced me to.

[02:46] If I was going to be able to talk to anyone, I, you know, I needed to really put myself out there.

[02:53] And so I kind of started talking to adults as a child a lot. And so I think that shaped how I connect with people and how I observe people.

[03:05] You know, went to Catholic school through high school,

[03:10] so, you know, probably had a little bit of a, you know, sheltering in that way.

[03:14] Um, but did speech and debate was kind of my thing in high school.

[03:21] Trying to bring more of that public speaking into my work now because it is something I enjoy and I feel like I’m decent at.

[03:30] Went to Tulane University in New Orleans as an undergrad, and I had to laugh when I listened to your introductory podcast about your sort of varied academic background.

[03:48] I was like, oh, that. That sounds familiar. So I started as an English major. I love writing and literature and did that for a year,

[03:58] but kind of chickened out. And I thought, oh, gosh, like, who am I to think I can, you know, be a novelist or. I. I don’t even know what I thought I would do with that.

[04:07] But I also loved biology,

[04:09] so I switched over to biology. Both my parents had been science teachers, so I grew up with a lot of just appreciation for,

[04:21] I don’t know,

[04:24] the natural world around me.

[04:28] So that was just something. That was just something I appreciated and it just kind of made sense. Oh, I could go to medical school since I like biology.

[04:39] And I. I think it was something that’s probably very common for young people to,

[04:46] you know, maybe not know themselves quite yet and, you know, follow a path that seems like their parents would approve.

[04:59] So I don’t know.

[05:00] Tara Bansal: Or for me, sorry to interrupt, but like,

[05:05] Tara Bansal: seems more practical.

[05:06] Tara Bansal: Like, they follow, instead of following their heart or their dreams, they go with what their parents or society or all these shoulds, right?

[05:20] Bridget Borel: And I think.

[05:22] And, you know, there were just.

[05:23] I only had a limited scope of what I had been exposed to in the world at that point.

[05:32] And it’s funny because I now very specifically remember sitting in the university center at Tulane studying for organic chemistry with a classmate and seeing a table nearby of business school students studying for some finance class.

[05:52] And just like,

[05:54] it was so foreign to me. I was like, how did they think to get into that? I don’t even know.

[06:01] And here I am a financial planner years later. But so,

[06:07] you know, kind of having a little FOMO now of like, oh, maybe I should have done that. But I think as you and I have talked about in Limitless, I think all of these experiences we have lead us to where we are now.

[06:21] Tara Bansal: So

[06:24] Bridget Borel: jumping back into my story.

[06:27] After college,

[06:28] I was, you know,

[06:29] working my way toward going to medical school and ended up marrying a guy who was in the Navy.

[06:37] And so we traveled to Washington State for a time and then lived in Norfolk, Virginia for a time. And I applied to medical school a couple of times and didn’t get in.

[06:54] And I, you know, after the second round, I was like, you know,

[06:57] maybe this isn’t actually what I want to do.

[07:02] So wasn’t really sure, career wise, what I wanted to do and was kind of now in this follow your husband around life,

[07:13] I think it’s changed a lot. But at the time there was still. I don’t know if you’ve ever been around military families who have heard this,

[07:21] there was a book called the Navy Wife that like specifically wrote out protocol for,

[07:28] you know, social interactions.

[07:31] So that was just a tiny bit before my time, but it was still kind of in the air around me as far as like,

[07:40] you know, my stuff was secondary.

[07:43] So I had never really thought about like being a stay at home mom or anything like that. But

[07:53] Tara Bansal: I.

[07:54] Bridget Borel: Once we moved to Maryland, he got out of the Navy, we settled in Maryland and I worked in science policy for a time.

[08:06] Tara Bansal: What does that mean?

[08:07] Tara Bansal: What is science policy?

[08:09] Bridget Borel: Sure.

[08:11] So I worked for a very short time in the Clinton administration as a writer writing on the administration’s environmental policy,

[08:27] energy policy.

[08:29] So kind of as an amplifier of President Clinton’s policy directives.

[08:37] And then from there I worked at the National Academy of Science at doing sort of science policy analysis, support of different studies. So it’s a nonprofit organization. It sounds like it’s part of the federal government, but it’s a nonprofit organization, a think tank that generally is hired by federal agencies to conduct studies with various experts in whatever the particular topic is to advise the federal government or whoever the sponsor happens to be of a study on various

[09:20] science related policy issues.

[09:23] So worked in that field for a few years and had. My daughter went back to work after having her for about a year and my husband had some health issues and it was just, it was just a lot to be commuting from.

[09:42] I live in Annapolis, Maryland,

[09:46] so it was a lot to be commuting into D.C.

[09:49] with a baby and a spouse having health issues and so decided to stay home.

[09:59] And that’s when I started doing.

[10:03] I wanted to kind of keep my foot in the professional world.

[10:08] So did some freelance writing and research.

[10:12] And that was really,

[10:14] I think, where the seed for going into the financial industry came. I had done,

[10:23] I had done some of our own investment work and, you know, had kind of enjoyed the,

[10:29] the Motley fool and that sort of thing and made some questionable decisions in stock picking at the time,

[10:40] as one does as a young adult. But so in that freelance work,

[10:48] I worked for an organization called Karma International,

[10:51] which is a media research firm. I’m not even sure if they’re still around actually. But so one of the clients who I did work for was a large international bank.

[11:06] And so my task was to evaluate coverage of that bank and their,

[11:14] the competitors in the industry that they had identified.

[11:18] A lot of what I ended up seeing was coverage of different advisors and their career path going back and forth or, you know, if they had gotten into some kind of trouble or if there was some kind of initiative they were advancing.

[11:36] So it really got me interested in the field and thinking,

[11:40] oh, you know, would I. Would I want to do that? And, you know, would I want to be more in, like, the.

[11:46] The investment research side?

[11:49] So it just kind of planted the seed, I think.

[11:52] And then as my kids got older,

[11:55] I wanted to go back to work full time and didn’t want to have to necessarily commute into D.C. so I was looking for something that would be easier to do in Annapolis.

[12:08] And so I got into property and casualty insurance and worked for a time for a nationwide agency.

[12:18] And then from there, since I had the life insurance licensing, was recruited by MassMutual.

[12:26] And so really at Mass, that was where I thought, okay, I. I do want to do this financial advising thing.

[12:35] Tara Bansal: So can I ask about how old you were?

[12:39] Bridget Borel: Uh, so this was not that terribly long ago. It’s just about 10 years ago,

[12:45] I think. I think it was 2016. I’m.

[12:48] My forte is not remembering dates,

[12:51] so I believe I joined Mass in 2016,

[12:59] so worked as an insurance agent, partnered with an investment advisor.

[13:08] So as a team, we brought in families and evaluated their needs. And it wasn’t true financial planning like I know it now in the kind of RIA world,

[13:23] but we did cover all of the places in a client’s life where money was involved, you know, in the similar way that a financial planner would do.

[13:41] So I just found that incredibly rewarding to sit in these meetings with clients and really get to know them at a pretty deep level and help guide them through these financial decisions across various areas of life.

[14:08] And I loved. I think it was particularly gratifying to me in that there was the mix of the analytical or intellectual with the relational,

[14:23] because I don’t think I could. You know, I worked with a woman once who had been a quantitative finance major and, you know, worked on Wall street, her first job at college, and basically, like, stared at spreadsheets all day.

[14:37] I was like, I could never do that.

[14:39] Like,

[14:40] I appreciate digging into spreadsheets and,

[14:43] you know, using them, but I don’t want to do that all day.

[14:47] And similarly, I love connecting with people and talking to them,

[14:52] but that’s not always the intellectually challenging part.

[14:56] Tara Bansal: So

[14:59] Bridget Borel: I love that being a financial planner satisfies both of those areas of interest for me.

[15:07] So while I was at Mass, I.

[15:10] I got separated from my husband,

[15:13] and that’s just a difficult time.

[15:18] And also in. So this was the end of 2017 when we separated, and two months later,

[15:27] my mom had a stroke and went into hospice care.

[15:31] So thus started like really the most awful year of my life.

[15:40] So 2018 was really rough going through all of the divorce process.

[15:47] My mom was in hospice a fairly long time. She was in hospice for about six months and she passed away in June of 2016.

[15:57] I mean, I’m sorry, 2018.

[16:01] And kind of a side note, there was a mass shooting in Annapolis 10 days after she was.

[16:10] She died. And I had a friend who was killed in that.

[16:14] So it was a really crappy year.

[16:18] Tara Bansal: The least.

[16:19] Bridget Borel: Yeah. So. But I think with respect to the divorce, you know, losing my mom in that timeframe I think kind of shifted the focus more as far as, you know, whatever he and I were disagreeing about and trying to work through in a settlement.

[16:41] It just felt so much less important as far as like, you know,

[16:48] I just lost the person in my, in my life and you know that this is all just going to work out and be fine. And I just needed to move forward.

[17:01] So our divorce was finalized in March of 2019 and I had at. At Mass in that time frame. I had wanted to.

[17:13] I had started studying for my Series 7 examination so that I could be licensed as an investment advisor in addition to being an insurance agent. But it was just so much, there was just so much that year between losing my mom and the divorce.

[17:31] And I decided this doesn’t feel like a safe place for me to be as a newly single mom in a commission only role and like starting something I’m, you know, still relatively new at.

[17:48] So I went back to the National Academies for a time. I thought, you know, this will be a good, like reset. I can figure out what my next steps are.

[17:59] Um, so I did that in 2019 and of course Covid came in 2020,

[18:03] but I think that was a good sort of step back.

[18:09] And you know,

[18:11] going back to what we were saying earlier about like having this nonlinear career path,

[18:17] I think sometimes it helps to step back a little bit to really get to know ourselves and level set and figure out what we want next. So that was where I started rethinking the financial industry again.

[18:34] I thought, you know, this really is,

[18:36] this really is a field I would like to get back into. So I just started kind of networking with people I knew in the industry around town and got offered a job at an RIA with.

[18:49] I was one of four advisors and so started working there and got my series 65, started working toward the CFP exam.

[19:01] And you know, there was a lot to be thankful for in, in that particular firm.

[19:08] But I,

[19:11] it didn’t quite feel like the right fit.

[19:13] The mutual insurance world, I think, is super competitive,

[19:19] super male dominated.

[19:25] And, you know, the RA world is less so that way. I think it’s definitely a lot more collaborative and collegial.

[19:33] Um, and, you know, I was one of two women, there were two men, so it wasn’t like I was the only woman in the firm. It still felt very siloed.

[19:43] Um, and I kind of felt like,

[19:46] well, if I’m gonna do this by myself, I might as well really do it by myself.

[19:51] Tara Bansal: Have the freedom to do it your way.

[19:53] Bridget Borel: Right? And,

[19:55] and I, I, I think coupled with turning 50,

[19:59] I thought, you know, if I’m going to do this, like, it’s time, let’s just go. And that was right about three years ago,

[20:07] right now.

[20:09] And I had been visiting my best friend from college who lives in Manhattan. And I remember sitting in her living room in her apartment and talking this out. And I don’t know, like, I feel like that was the moment where I decided, okay, like, I can do this and it’s scary,

[20:31] but essentially it’s just work.

[20:35] And I felt like I had been through so much emotional upheaval and challenge previous to that that I was like, you know, it’s just work. And I don’t know, I mean,

[20:51] some people will say to me, like, oh, like, you’ve taken this big risk of starting a business. And yes, that is true.

[20:58] However,

[20:59] you know, if everything falls apart tomorrow, like, I still have my cfp,

[21:04] I still have my experience and my skills. And it’s not like some, I don’t even know what to compare it to. Some kind of construction business, say, where it had to, like, put a lot of money into equipment.

[21:19] If I needed to, I could just move on to another role.

[21:23] So I feel like it’s not even that big of a risk.

[21:26] It’s more,

[21:28] it’s more that the onus is on me. Like, if anything’s going to happen,

[21:32] I have. You have that.

[21:34] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[21:34] Bridget Borel: So.

[21:36] So that’s where I am. And I decided I wanted to focus on women specifically going through divorce because I wanted to be the advisor I wished I’d had when I went through a divorce,

[21:52] because ironically,

[21:53] I was in the field, but I don’t even know that I knew the designation CDFA Certified Divorce Financial Analyst existed at the time.

[22:04] And the advisors I worked with were all kind of of the mindset of, like, oh, divorce. Like, I don’t want to touch that.

[22:10] Which, you know, I think is fair. Like, everybody has their,

[22:13] their appetites for different financial scenarios.

[22:17] I love that I get to help women through sort of that arc of the experience of, you know, especially if they come to me before the divorce, of, you know, helping them navigate that repair.

[22:34] Yeah. That period.

[22:36] And hopefully,

[22:38] you know, come to a good settlement and then starting the rebuilding of their new life. And that’s so incredibly gratifying to see my clients who, you know, I’ve been through that, you know, several years of that transition period, and I get to, you know, say, you know, a couple years past divorce,

[23:01] like, look at what we’ve done.

[23:03] It’s so much. It’s so exciting.

[23:05] So,

[23:06] yeah, I just. I feel really blessed in that regard. It’s a really great experience.

[23:12] And I also want to influence other women in the industry,

[23:19] so encourage women to come into the industry,

[23:23] but also consider leadership roles or, you know, founding their own firm.

[23:29] So those are kind of like the things that drive me.

[23:33] Tara Bansal: Very cool. I.

[23:35] I also.

[23:37] I think I passed two of the three C, D, F, A tests, and I thought I wanted to focus on divorced women after my divorce.

[23:48] And maybe it was.

[23:52] It still was too raw for me,

[23:55] but I felt like I could not because women going through that,

[24:04] Tara Bansal: it’s really hard.

[24:05] Tara Bansal: There’s a lot of big emotions. There’s a lot to deal with.

[24:09] And honestly, I felt like I couldn’t do it.

[24:13] So I am impressed that you can and that you are, because that’s something I wanted to do and I wasn’t able to do it at that time.

[24:26] Bridget Borel: Well, it did take me. It did take me some time.

[24:29] It had been the, you know, the idea of divorce as a niche had been suggested to me well before I chose that path.

[24:43] And I think it was just that, like, I needed to do my own healing first.

[24:50] And I’ve heard someone use the expression, let me see if I can get it right,

[24:55] that it works for us to share our experiences from the scars, but not from the wound.

[25:06] Yeah,

[25:07] so.

[25:08] So I think, you know, once. Once the. The scar tissue had formed,

[25:13] it worked for me. But I mean, it’s. It’s also just not for everyone. I mean, it is.

[25:20] It is a kind of large emotional load to spend a significant amount of time with clients in distress and not in a.

[25:32] An emotionally or nervous system regulated state.

[25:37] So I do, you know, I have to, like,

[25:40] protect my boundaries and my energy and,

[25:44] you know, really that capacity for that piece of the work.

[25:49] And I think financial advisors,

[25:52] really,

[25:53] if you can’t handle that at all, you’re in the wrong industry.

[25:56] Because divorce or not, like, people Go through trying emotional times and money is involved, period. Like it’s gonna happen.

[26:04] Tara Bansal: Those are tied together.

[26:06] Bridget Borel: Yeah. So.

[26:08] But I just, I think I get more of it because of the focus on divorce.

[26:14] There is some amount of really even in just structuring my time and how much of my business is focused on the,

[26:23] the actual CDFA part and working on a settlement and an active divorce compared to, you know, ongoing financial planning clients.

[26:32] I have to be mindful of that just to protect my own energy.

[26:38] But so far so good.

[26:40] Tara Bansal: Great.

[26:41] Tara Bansal: So a few questions. How, what can you share about your boundaries and how you are choosing to work now in a way that works

[26:52] Bridget Borel: for you with regard to the divorce work or just anything, Anything like time

[27:00] Tara Bansal: wise, emotional wise, divorce wise?

[27:04] Bridget Borel: Well,

[27:05] my youngest child is 16. He’ll be a junior in high school in a couple of weeks.

[27:13] Um, so I still,

[27:16] I think I, I still carry a little bit of my stay at home mom identity with me, although I, I try to be purposeful where I keep that.

[27:28] But part of my wanting to be a solo practitioner for now is that,

[27:35] you know, I’ve, I’ve only got two years left with him home and I, I want to be available to him,

[27:43] you know. And honestly, maybe part of this is a little bit of divorce guilt hangover.

[27:50] I don’t know,

[27:52] wanting to, you know, just make sure he has lots of parental time.

[27:58] So there’s that. So I do want to, you know, keep my schedule flexible and have plenty of family time.

[28:07] Um, so that’s, you know, kind of the immediate driver.

[28:11] Beyond that, I would say I try to have a good blend of, like I said, the, the active divorce work and the ongoing financial planning client work.

[28:23] And that seems to, that seems to be okay so far,

[28:26] sort of manageable.

[28:28] I think with time I might need to offload some, some of the,

[28:36] the active divorce process work maybe bring in.

[28:41] I’m not sure how that would work a paraplanner or you know, someone to help with that side.

[28:48] I, I just think it’s shorter,

[28:51] shorter, more intense engagements for that work.

[28:55] Whereas my ongoing clients, for the most part our truly active time is, is more in the spring and the, the fall with my like people who do surge seasons understand that,

[29:08] you know, the semi annual reviews and then, you know, onboarding new clients as they come in. But the, you know, divorce doesn’t exactly have a season.

[29:21] Tara Bansal: No.

[29:22] Bridget Borel: So,

[29:24] so that’s kind of going throughout. So I’m still kind of figuring out pacing of those things and as the,

[29:33] the divorce work picks up because I actually just Finished my CDFA designation in April.

[29:40] I think I earned the designation on April 1st,

[29:44] so it’ll be interesting to see how that that works out. But I’m definitely cognizant of that. And I think the limitless program has been helpful in.

[29:53] In as much as taking a kind of analytical eye to that and quantifying hours where we spend doing what,

[30:04] but also coupled with that,

[30:08] understanding what our energy is around each type of work or type of task that we’re. We’re taking on.

[30:19] So that into the equation.

[30:21] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[30:21] Bridget Borel: Yeah. So for now,

[30:23] it feels like a good balance,

[30:27] but like I said, I think I will have to just place stricter boundaries around the act of divorce work going forward,

[30:37] just as more clients come in the door.

[30:40] Tara Bansal: Do you have a number of hours

[30:42] Tara Bansal: you try to work each week or limit yourself to working each week or with kids?

[30:48] Tara Bansal: I know sometimes it’s just, like, you want the flexibility, and so that’s the priority.

[30:53] Tara Bansal: Right.

[30:54] Bridget Borel: So when my son is with me right now, our custody schedule is two weeks at each parent’s house at a time. Um,

[31:02] you know, he’s a little older, so he just doesn’t want to move around as much, which I totally understand.

[31:08] Um, so in the. The timeframes that he is with me,

[31:12] I’m probably working around,

[31:16] say, 25 hours a week.

[31:19] Um, and it depends if he’s in school in the summer. I’m kind of. He doesn’t have his license yet. I’m still transporting him everywhere. It’s a mess.

[31:26] Drives me crazy. But,

[31:29] yeah, then when he’s in school or he’s at his dad’s, then it’s probably more like 35 hours a week. I’m. I am pretty committed to having flexible Fridays. They don’t necessarily not work at all,

[31:47] but I have kind of gotten in the rhythm of.

[31:51] I do.

[31:53] One of my hobbies is Olympic weightlifting, which is just. It’s not. I’m not going to the Olympics, but it’s a specific style of weightlifting.

[32:02] Um, so Fridays are one of my lifting days, so I enjoy going to the gym midday.

[32:09] And,

[32:10] you know, maybe I’ll have some kind of networking meeting with a COI or what have you.

[32:19] And ironically,

[32:21] if I don’t have social plans on Friday evenings, I find myself working on Friday nights. It’s, like, bizarre. I don’t know.

[32:29] Tara Bansal: But to me, that shows you enjoy

[32:31] Bridget Borel: what you’re doing, or I hope that’s true.

[32:33] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[32:34] Bridget Borel: So I think it usually ends up being, like,

[32:38] a writing and marketing time. And I think maybe, because I know there will be no, you know, clients trying to reach me on a Friday night.

[32:50] Like, it’s easier to devote my energy

[32:52] Tara Bansal: to it, to focus on that.

[32:53] Bridget Borel: Yeah, right.

[32:54] So that’s. That’s kind of how it is right now. And. And I foresee probably pouring more once my son is done with high school being a little more.

[33:12] Not that I’m not focused now, but that I’ll have a little more room in my schedule for continuing to grow the business and, you know, just seeing what comes next.

[33:24] Tara Bansal: Where did the name of your business, Clairewell, come from?

[33:28] Bridget Borel: Oh, here’s a fun story.

[33:31] So the initial name of the firm was the Pearl Financial Planning with the idea of, like,

[33:39] something beautiful coming out of challenge.

[33:44] And turns out there there were actually a couple of different firms with pearl in the name,

[33:53] and one of them has a registered trademark that’s now registered. It was not registered at the time, but they were in the application process.

[34:00] So essentially they put pressure on me to,

[34:05] you know, cease and desist using the name. And that was very frustrating at the time because it was like, oh, my gosh, I just want to, like, get started with my business.

[34:16] And you’re in this totally different part of the country, but at the same time, it’s like we’re so virtual now that, you know, one option to me at the time was to, you know, offer to say, you know, well, I’ll only work with clients in the mid Atlantic or in airland or whatever,

[34:32] what have you.

[34:33] I was like, no, I’m not. I’m not going to limit myself to that. And,

[34:37] you know, I was only.

[34:40] I think this was about a year in when this started,

[34:45] maybe not even that. That long.

[34:49] And so I thought, you know, I haven’t invested that much in the brand,

[34:54] so,

[34:55] okay, I’m not going to fight this.

[34:58] And I worked with an attorney on coming up with a new name that that would be what they call a strong mark and that it would. It wouldn’t be easy to be challenged.

[35:15] So there wasn’t like, someone else already using the name.

[35:19] And it could over time be easily identified with my work.

[35:25] So I started basically with market research

[35:31] Tara Bansal: in

[35:33] Bridget Borel: interviewing existing clients and client avatars and getting into the, you know, that qualitative data of when they’re going into a divorce. What were they feeling as they went through it? Like, how did their feelings about money change?

[35:55] You know, and. And just that whole experience of, like I talked about earlier, having that arc of, you know,

[36:02] the before and through and after and how that. How their feelings changed about money over that Time.

[36:12] And one of the big things that came out was clarity,

[36:16] which, you know, I think is pretty common in financial planning. We hear a lot about that.

[36:22] So clairewell kind of came out. It was kind of the sense of clarity and light and well being wealth and honestly making up a word that didn’t exist. So a little bit easier to protect as a trademark.

[36:41] So. But I think that process, while it felt annoying at the time and someone reminded me, hey, like,

[36:50] this is the problem you get to take on because you’re a business owner and it’s like, okay, okay, I will, you know, re.

[36:56] Shift my framing here.

[37:00] And I think that was extremely valuable in that it really helped me understand at a deeper level what my potential clients were really feeling in this time period where they might be looking for advice and how they wanted to feel coming out of it.

[37:28] So that was a great branding exercise I did with a woman who has a brand strategy business.

[37:37] And so we dug into that and she’s helped me build out my branding and my website and everything.

[37:46] And we’re, we’re actually going through another revision right now and adding a divorce landing page and that sort of thing.

[37:55] But I definitely, you know, when I hear colleagues talk about choosing a firm name, I encourage them to, you know, look beyond your surname.

[38:05] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[38:06] Bridget Borel: A. Because that’s not a.

[38:08] That’s not a strong mark,

[38:10] according to my attorney.

[38:13] And you know, if,

[38:16] if you’re not putting that research into it, you’re missing an opportunity to really better understand your client base.

[38:25] And that, I mean, that informs everything I do. It’s not just the branding,

[38:31] the marketing and informs the entire client experience and how I make business decisions.

[38:39] So.

[38:41] Tara Bansal: So that ended up. It sounds like an annoyance. Helped you do something that was very beneficial.

[38:50] Bridget Borel: Yeah, for sure.

[38:52] And my mark is now registered as of a few weeks ago. So that was kind of,

[38:59] in a way, anticlimactic.

[39:04] It’s a long process to go through with the US Patent and Trademark Office getting that through.

[39:11] It wasn’t particularly onerous, honestly.

[39:15] It just takes time.

[39:16] Tara Bansal: Took a while. Yeah.

[39:17] Bridget Borel: Yeah.

[39:18] Tara Bansal: How long did it take?

[39:19] Bridget Borel: Do you know?

[39:21] I think about two years.

[39:24] And part of, I mean, part of that was the,

[39:27] the research in coming up with a new name.

[39:30] Okay. Um,

[39:32] so I, I don’t recall. It might have been more like a year and a half as far as like applying for the. And then get it mark and then actually having it registered.

[39:43] Tara Bansal: What. How many clients do you have and what is your vision for your ideal practice?

[39:50] Bridget Borel: Right. So I’m still sort of in my Nascent phase here. Um, I have 10 ongoing financial planning clients and definitely a fair amount of my revenue is coming from project work through divorce planning.

[40:08] And the goal is for most of the divorce planning clients to become ongoing financial planning clients.

[40:17] But that doesn’t always work from the standpoint of the asset level that they have or even just their. Their need. Like, if, if all of their assets are essentially in their 401k, then, you know,

[40:33] I can do planning work for them, but I’m not doing investment management for them.

[40:38] And that’s a. It’s kind of a slow sales process.

[40:46] So I would, I would.

[40:48] That’s kind of a little challenge I’m facing right now is like, okay, how do. How do I get some business in that doesn’t take quite as long. And of course,

[40:55] with divorce, you know, I have one prospect right now who I think is going to sign her agreement now,

[41:02] but I’ve been in conversation with her for almost two years and that’s, I mean, that’s not about the financial work. That’s about her deciding she’s ready to get divorced,

[41:16] which, you know, I have zero control over.

[41:18] So that’s a little,

[41:20] I guess,

[41:22] pain point for me now is figuring out,

[41:25] you know, I still am very passionate about that work and feel I can make a huge impact for clients in that work.

[41:35] But I want to make sure that, you know, not,

[41:39] not all of my clients coming in the door necessarily through that channel.

[41:45] And so, you know, putting some focus more on, you know, clients who are just ready to go with an ongoing financial planning,

[41:53] a comprehensive financial planning engagement.

[41:56] Tara Bansal: Can I. How many of your clients are couples versus just single women?

[42:06] Bridget Borel: I think right now it’s probably about 40% are married,

[42:15] including a gay male couple.

[42:21] Yeah,

[42:22] so like, not,

[42:23] not the, not the, you know, divorced woman client at all.

[42:29] But yeah, so. And then, you know, my clients who come to me as single women may remarry later down the road, so who knows?

[42:39] But yeah, probably about 40% are currently married.

[42:43] It’s. It’s interesting, I think, because I feel like this could be another niche on its own of the single person or someone aging solo.

[42:57] So that’s.

[42:58] I have a friend and colleague who focuses on widows,

[43:03] and he and I collaborate a fair amount,

[43:07] but I think that’s.

[43:09] That’s something I look at too, as far as, you know, being very attentive to, you know, if my divorce a clients stay single,

[43:19] you know, how does that impact their planning needs versus if they were to remarry?

[43:26] And of course, you know, eventually most of Us end up solo. So that’s always the part of the planning experience. Somewhere along the line.

[43:38] Tara Bansal: Yeah. Going back, you’re really. I mean, it sounds like it wasn’t just 2018, but, like, that time period around that. How do you feel like that has

[43:52] Tara Bansal: changed or shaped your business and how you work now?

[43:59] Bridget Borel: Well,

[44:02] it was such a formative time for me,

[44:12] and you and I have discussed the value of doing therapy and how that can shape us in so many ways. But I think, you know, I had done.

[44:24] Done therapy for a bit, you know, going into the divorce, essentially trying to figure out if that was the right thing for me to do. I mean, I had three kids.

[44:33] Like, I didn’t want to take this decision lightly,

[44:39] but I think when I.

[44:44] It must have been right about the time I decided to take on,

[44:48] start the firm, my own firm,

[44:52] I really kind of doubled down on therapy and was like,

[44:58] pretty much going weekly,

[45:00] at least three times a month. And that was so incredibly valuable to me,

[45:08] both personally and professionally. And I’ve heard someone in the industry say this. I. I want to say it was Daniel Crosby, But I’m not 100% sure that we, as advisors can only help our clients to the extent that we have helped ourselves.

[45:28] And so I.

[45:30] I know therapy still, you know, it’s. It’s much more accepted than it was, you know, maybe 20 years ago.

[45:37] Um, but I make a point of talking about my own therapy experience and how valuable I think that is, because I don’t want people to miss out. I mean, we could all benefit.

[45:50] Like, you don’t have to have had some,

[45:52] you know,

[45:53] trauma with a capital T to benefit from therapy. And we all have our. Our ways that we block ourselves and get in our own way.

[46:09] And it’s just been such a wonderful experience to me and expanded my life so much in getting to know myself

[46:19] Tara Bansal: and

[46:22] Bridget Borel: how I can.

[46:27] Just go for what I want and essentially and then also bring that to my clients and be. And not that I therapize them,

[46:40] but ironically. And I. I skipped this part,

[46:43] but when I was back at the National Academies,

[46:49] kind of in the COVID time frame, I did consider becoming a therapist.

[46:56] And I guess the short version of that is it would have taken me too long to get to the point where I could make the money that I could make in the financial industry.

[47:07] I mean, that’s. That’s one part of it, but I think it’s.

[47:12] I think I ended up in the right place.

[47:14] So that lens, I think, of self knowledge and growth and inform so much of How I work in my business,

[47:29] but also work with my clients and. And just honestly just hold space for them. I mean, I think a lot of financial advisors are just kind of. That’s just how a lot of us are built.

[47:41] Like, we’re.

[47:42] We just do that. That’s just who we are as people,

[47:46] Tara Bansal: I think, especially women, you know, even more so.

[47:48] Bridget Borel: Yeah,

[47:50] but there’s. I mean, there’s definitely skills around that that we can build in practice.

[47:55] And so all of that therapy experience has been huge for that. And I. I feel like I get to,

[48:03] in the limitless program,

[48:06] share some of that with my fellow advisors,

[48:10] so. And, you know. Cause sometimes we’re really, really hard on ourselves.

[48:14] Tara Bansal: Yes,

[48:17] I agree with that.

[48:18] I think that is all too true. And so that’s one of the things I feel like as a coach and a financial advisor, I don’t want to add to that because most of us are too harsh on ourselves.

[48:33] Bridget Borel: For sure. For sure. Any.

[48:37] Tara Bansal: What were some of the specifics or

[48:39] Tara Bansal: takeaways from your therapy that have helped you personally and professionally? If you’re willing to share, I understand it.

[48:47] Bridget Borel: I think a big one is that action quells anxiety.

[48:55] And the converse is true. Anxiety quells action.

[49:00] Actually, isn’t that. I want to say that’s.

[49:04] Oh, gosh, I’m forgetting her name.

[49:06] The coach.

[49:09] Tara Bansal: Liz Hand.

[49:10] Bridget Borel: You went through her.

[49:11] No, you went through her coaching program. Oh, Martha Beck. Yes, Martha Beck.

[49:17] I think I remember getting that specifically from her, but also talking about it in.

[49:22] In therapy specifically.

[49:24] So, you know, in the business, if there.

[49:27] Sometimes there are just things I don’t want to do for whatever reason, you know, maybe it’s out of fear. Maybe it’s because I just don’t like it.

[49:37] And of course, if it’s something I need to do,

[49:42] say, for, you know, compliance purposes or whatever, it’s just, you know, that it’s what the client needs,

[49:50] then anxiety can build around that. And so I think,

[49:54] you know, therapy helped me build that muscle of like, okay, like, you just break this up into digestible chunks and chip at it a little bit at a time and keep going.

[50:05] And then suddenly it’s not so anxiety inducing.

[50:09] It might still not be your favorite, but you feel a little more confidence and ease with it. And I try to impart that to my clients as well. Especially.

[50:21] Especially for women who are coming in and they weren’t the family cfo,

[50:25] and just anything dealing with managing their finances scares the living daylights out of them.

[50:32] It’s like, okay, like,

[50:34] just go. I want you to Work on getting me a list of your assets over the next week. And if you need to, like, just do it 15 minutes at a time.

[50:42] Okay. Yep. We’ll just get started.

[50:45] Tara Bansal: Get down.

[50:46] Bridget Borel: Yeah. Yeah. I love that.

[50:49] Tara Bansal: Oh, I have a million more questions for you, Ed.

[50:54] Bridget Borel: I can talk, Tara.

[50:57] Tara Bansal: What?

[51:01] Tara Bansal: What are you still learning and focusing

[51:04] Bridget Borel: on learning right now?

[51:09] I just love learning.

[51:12] I was doing a little exercise the other day, and I thought, gosh, you know, I could. I could just go to law school for fun or, you know, finally. Finally study finance in school.

[51:29] But I think the big lesson for me right now is.

[51:43] Really. I mean, honestly, it gets back to just, like, confidence and really believing.

[51:49] And I do.

[51:51] And sometimes I forget that. That my work has tremendous impact for my clients.

[51:59] And if I’m not making a point of bringing that out into the world, then I’m depriving them of that experience.

[52:09] Tara Bansal: The health and service. Yeah.

[52:11] Bridget Borel: Yeah. So it’s not, you know,

[52:13] shining my light is not.

[52:16] It’s not about me, talking about me, but really sharing the good that I can do.

[52:24] And so I think, you know, there’s still some little childhood shadows or what have you that. That make that challenging for me,

[52:33] but, you know, working on it.

[52:36] Tara Bansal: That’s great. How has your definition of success changed?

[52:41] Tara Bansal: Well, I guess, first, what is your definition of success?

[52:44] Bridget Borel: And would you say it’s changed either

[52:47] Tara Bansal: with time or working in this industry?

[52:51] Bridget Borel: I think largely I view success as security and options.

[53:02] I’ve never.

[53:03] You know, there. There are definitely material things that I enjoy,

[53:08] but I’ve never been driven to just make more money or grow an investment just for the sake of seeing the number get bigger. That’s kind of boring, honestly, in my mind.

[53:25] But, you know, for example, the time that I get with my son,

[53:30] that’s huge.

[53:32] Yeah.

[53:34] And the. You know, the options, you know, like, I’m starting to think beyond his high school time. You know, what. What’s next for me as far as, you know, where do I want to live and how do I want to spend my time, whether that’s with the firm or,

[53:52] you know,

[53:53] personal time.

[53:55] So I think, you know, for me, like I said, it’s the optionality.

[54:01] What was the other thing I said?

[54:03] Security.

[54:04] Tara Bansal: Security.

[54:04] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[54:05] Bridget Borel: Yeah. So, you know, not feeling like the rug’s gonna be pulled out from underneath me and being able to have different options available,

[54:16] and I try to impart that to clients as well. And I think previously,

[54:23] how I might have viewed success,

[54:25] I think I might have,

[54:28] as a younger person, looked at it with more sort of External drivers,

[54:36] you know, just thinking of,

[54:39] you know, a particular salary or,

[54:42] you know. Yeah.

[54:45] And I think not so much that I really believed that, but that I just hadn’t learned enough about myself to understand what success really meant to me.

[54:59] And so, you know, I kind of love that. I. I do work around manifesting. I can’t remember if you and I have talked about the. The To Be Magnetic program,

[55:12] but the idea that, you know, we.

[55:16] We identify these things that are our true core values and true core desires in life,

[55:25] and if we’re taking aligned action toward those end goals,

[55:32] then essentially, like we already are living our dream life because we’ve embodied that.

[55:39] So, you know, I may not have my dream house on the water just yet,

[55:44] but if I’m taking steps in my life every day and embodying that feeling of this is how I want to live,

[55:54] then I’m already there,

[55:56] which is wildly liberating and expanding.

[56:04] Tara Bansal: Wonderful. Wow. Last question, if you have time.

[56:08] Bridget Borel: Of course.

[56:11] Tara Bansal: So if every woman listening remembered just one thing from our conversation today, what

[56:19] Tara Bansal: would you hope it would be?

[56:25] Bridget Borel: I would have to say, you are completely,

[56:30] absolutely capable and worthy of all that your heart desires on your own.

[56:41] No partner needed. No, you know,

[56:44] no external validation needed.

[56:48] You’re just capable and worthy.

[56:50] So go do it.

[56:50] Tara Bansal: You are. Yeah. Oh, that’s beautiful. What a perfect way to end.

[56:56] Tara Bansal: Thank you.

[56:56] Bridget Borel: Thank you.

[56:58] Tara Bansal: My biggest takeaway from today’s conversation with Bridget is the idea that sometimes we actually need to slow down in order to speed up.

[57:09] I’ve heard this saying before,

[57:11] and I heard this theme several times throughout Bridget’s story.

[57:16] It seems like that is the message I keep hearing. Or maybe it’s that I need to hear right now.

[57:21] After an incredibly difficult period in Bridget’s life, going through a divorce, losing her mom,

[57:28] and experiencing so much change,

[57:30] she made the decision to step back.

[57:33] She returned to the National Academies and gave herself some time to regroup,

[57:38] to get to know herself again and to figure out what she wanted next.

[57:43] And I loved what she said about sometimes needing to step back in order to level set.

[57:50] We can be so quick to think that moving forward means taking action,

[57:55] that we need to figure out the next thing,

[57:57] make the decision now, or keep pushing ourselves.

[58:01] But sometimes stepping back is the thing that truly allows us to regroup and move forward.

[58:08] I heard that again when Bridget talked about doubling down on therapy as she was starting her own firm.

[58:14] One of my favorite ideas from our entire conversation was something she shared.

[58:20] That as advisors, we can only help our clients to the extent that we’ve helped ourselves.

[58:26] I really agree with that, and it is something to remember.

[58:30] The time we spend understanding ourselves is healing, growing or becoming more aware of our own patterns isn’t separate from our work. It can actually make us better at our work.

[58:42] It can help us listen more deeply,

[58:45] hold space for someone else, and serve our clients in a much more meaningful way.

[58:50] And even Bridget’s story about renaming her firm reflected this too.

[58:56] What initially felt like an annoying inconvenience and obstacle forced her to slow down and really listen to the people that she wanted to serve.

[59:06] She learned more about what they were struggling with, what they really wanted, and the value she could provide.

[59:13] That clarity ultimately has helped her be able to better articulate who she works with,

[59:19] what they value, and move forward with greater, better intention.

[59:24] I think that’s the reminder I’m taking with me from this conversation.

[59:28] Slowing down isn’t necessarily the opposite of progress.

[59:32] Sometimes slowing down is what creates the clarity,

[59:36] the healing, and the self knowledge that allows us to move forward more powerfully.

[59:42] Maybe the question for us isn’t always how can I move faster?

[59:47] Maybe sometimes it’s where might slowing down actually help me?

[59:53] Thank you for listening to her life, her practice, her way.

[59:57] I hope today’s conversation gave you something to think about and will help you slow down and hear yourself more clearly.

[01:00:04] If you know another woman who might enjoy or get something from this conversation,

[01:00:09] please share this episode with her.

[01:00:11] And until next time, I hope you’ll ask yourself the question I ask every guest and I keep coming back to you.

[01:00:19] What are you giving yourself permission to want right now?

Resources Mentioned

Clairwell Financial Planning
Learn more about Bridget Borel and her work helping women navigate divorce, financial transitions, and ongoing financial planning.
Clairwell Financial Planning

Certified Divorce Financial Analyst® (CDFA®)
Bridget discusses becoming a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst and how her own experience with divorce eventually led her to focus on helping women navigate the financial side of divorce.
Institute for Divorce Financial Analysts / CDFA® Certification

Limitless Advisor
Bridget and Tara talk about their experiences in the Limitless Advisor community and the role it has played in their professional and personal growth as financial advisors.
Limitless Advisor

Martha Beck
During the conversation, Bridget and Tara discuss the idea that “action quells anxiety,” which Bridget remembers learning from Martha Beck, in addition to exploring it through her own therapy. Martha is an author, coach, and creator of Wayfinder Life Coach Training.
Martha Beck

To Be Magnetic
Bridget mentions the To Be Magnetic program and its approach to identifying core values and desires, taking aligned action, and thinking differently about what it means to already be living the life you want.
To Be Magnetic

The Motley Fool
Bridget talks about becoming interested in investing earlier in her life and mentions The Motley Fool as one of the resources she enjoyed as she began learning about investing.
The Motley Fool

Bridget Borel’s Bio

I founded Clairwell to provide a space for women and those who love them to grow and embrace their wealth and the lives they can build for themselves. My mission is to BE the advisor I wish I’d had when I went through divorce. 

As a woman in a male-dominated industry, and as a female firm-owner in an even more male-predominant group, I want to make sure everyone who has felt excluded from the table is included and welcomed to grow their wealth and their lives.

I work virtually from my home in Annapolis, Maryland. My three children who astound me every single day. My fun time is spent with them and with friends, getting curious about the world – cooking, discovering new cities, playing on the water and in the woods, volunteering, seeking out live music, and CrossFit workouts.

Email: bridget@clairwellfp.com

Website: clairwellfp.com

Instagram: clairwellfp

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Bridget.Clairwell

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bridget-borel-44177240/

https://substack.com/@clairwellconversations

[00:17] Tara Bansal: Welcome to Her Life, Her Practice, Her Way, a podcast for and about women in financial planning.

[00:25] Tara Bansal: I’m Tara Conti Bansal, a financial planner and life coach.

[00:29] And I believe that when women thrive in this profession, we all win.

[00:34] As women, we’re often very good at taking care of everyone else and not nearly as good at asking ourselves what we need or what we really want.

[00:45] Through honest conversations,

[00:47] we’ll explore what it means to slow down,

[00:50] trust ourselves,

[00:52] and build a life and practice that feels true to who we are.

[00:57] There isn’t one right way. There’s only your way.

[01:02] Tara Bansal: Hello, and welcome to our second season of Her Life, Her Practice, Her Way.

[01:10] And I am absolutely thrilled to have Bridget Borel here with me today.

[01:18] I have admired her from afar.

[01:21] She is part of the Limitless program.

[01:24] Tara Bansal: And just on the calls, in the

[01:28] Tara Bansal: chat,

[01:29] seeing what she says and what she shared,

[01:33] I, from the beginning was like, I want to get to know her and her practice better.

[01:39] Um, she has lived a full life and been through various things that I identified with. And so,

[01:50] as I said, I’m just excited to have Bridget here today and have her share her wisdom with all of us. So welcome, Bridget.

[01:59] Bridget Borel: Oh, my goodness. Thank you. Such a kind intro. I’m delighted to be here.

[02:03] Tara Bansal: Thank you. We always start with, tell us your story, Brene Brown style. Like, where did you come from and how did you get where you are today?

[02:15] Bridget Borel: Sure.

[02:16] Well, I was born and raised in Louisiana, the youngest of three girls.

[02:22] Although I kind of grew up like an only child and that my sisters are 13 and 14 years older than me.

[02:29] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[02:30] Bridget Borel: But I think that,

[02:32] you know, growing up that way with all of my,

[02:35] you know, cousins and whatnot and even, like, neighbors,

[02:39] everyone was a little bit older than me. So I think that that kind of forced me to.

[02:46] If I was going to be able to talk to anyone, I, you know, I needed to really put myself out there.

[02:53] And so I kind of started talking to adults as a child a lot. And so I think that shaped how I connect with people and how I observe people.

[03:05] You know, went to Catholic school through high school,

[03:10] so, you know, probably had a little bit of a, you know, sheltering in that way.

[03:14] Um, but did speech and debate was kind of my thing in high school.

[03:21] Trying to bring more of that public speaking into my work now because it is something I enjoy and I feel like I’m decent at.

[03:30] Went to Tulane University in New Orleans as an undergrad, and I had to laugh when I listened to your introductory podcast about your sort of varied academic background.

[03:48] I was like, oh, that. That sounds familiar. So I started as an English major. I love writing and literature and did that for a year,

[03:58] but kind of chickened out. And I thought, oh, gosh, like, who am I to think I can, you know, be a novelist or. I. I don’t even know what I thought I would do with that.

[04:07] But I also loved biology,

[04:09] so I switched over to biology. Both my parents had been science teachers, so I grew up with a lot of just appreciation for,

[04:21] I don’t know,

[04:24] the natural world around me.

[04:28] So that was just something. That was just something I appreciated and it just kind of made sense. Oh, I could go to medical school since I like biology.

[04:39] And I. I think it was something that’s probably very common for young people to,

[04:46] you know, maybe not know themselves quite yet and, you know, follow a path that seems like their parents would approve.

[04:59] So I don’t know.

[05:00] Tara Bansal: Or for me, sorry to interrupt, but like,

[05:05] Tara Bansal: seems more practical.

[05:06] Tara Bansal: Like, they follow, instead of following their heart or their dreams, they go with what their parents or society or all these shoulds, right?

[05:20] Bridget Borel: And I think.

[05:22] And, you know, there were just.

[05:23] I only had a limited scope of what I had been exposed to in the world at that point.

[05:32] And it’s funny because I now very specifically remember sitting in the university center at Tulane studying for organic chemistry with a classmate and seeing a table nearby of business school students studying for some finance class.

[05:52] And just like,

[05:54] it was so foreign to me. I was like, how did they think to get into that? I don’t even know.

[06:01] And here I am a financial planner years later. But so,

[06:07] you know, kind of having a little FOMO now of like, oh, maybe I should have done that. But I think as you and I have talked about in Limitless, I think all of these experiences we have lead us to where we are now.

[06:21] Tara Bansal: So

[06:24] Bridget Borel: jumping back into my story.

[06:27] After college,

[06:28] I was, you know,

[06:29] working my way toward going to medical school and ended up marrying a guy who was in the Navy.

[06:37] And so we traveled to Washington State for a time and then lived in Norfolk, Virginia for a time. And I applied to medical school a couple of times and didn’t get in.

[06:54] And I, you know, after the second round, I was like, you know,

[06:57] maybe this isn’t actually what I want to do.

[07:02] So wasn’t really sure, career wise, what I wanted to do and was kind of now in this follow your husband around life,

[07:13] I think it’s changed a lot. But at the time there was still. I don’t know if you’ve ever been around military families who have heard this,

[07:21] there was a book called the Navy Wife that like specifically wrote out protocol for,

[07:28] you know, social interactions.

[07:31] So that was just a tiny bit before my time, but it was still kind of in the air around me as far as like,

[07:40] you know, my stuff was secondary.

[07:43] So I had never really thought about like being a stay at home mom or anything like that. But

[07:53] Tara Bansal: I.

[07:54] Bridget Borel: Once we moved to Maryland, he got out of the Navy, we settled in Maryland and I worked in science policy for a time.

[08:06] Tara Bansal: What does that mean?

[08:07] Tara Bansal: What is science policy?

[08:09] Bridget Borel: Sure.

[08:11] So I worked for a very short time in the Clinton administration as a writer writing on the administration’s environmental policy,

[08:27] energy policy.

[08:29] So kind of as an amplifier of President Clinton’s policy directives.

[08:37] And then from there I worked at the National Academy of Science at doing sort of science policy analysis, support of different studies. So it’s a nonprofit organization. It sounds like it’s part of the federal government, but it’s a nonprofit organization, a think tank that generally is hired by federal agencies to conduct studies with various experts in whatever the particular topic is to advise the federal government or whoever the sponsor happens to be of a study on various

[09:20] science related policy issues.

[09:23] So worked in that field for a few years and had. My daughter went back to work after having her for about a year and my husband had some health issues and it was just, it was just a lot to be commuting from.

[09:42] I live in Annapolis, Maryland,

[09:46] so it was a lot to be commuting into D.C.

[09:49] with a baby and a spouse having health issues and so decided to stay home.

[09:59] And that’s when I started doing.

[10:03] I wanted to kind of keep my foot in the professional world.

[10:08] So did some freelance writing and research.

[10:12] And that was really,

[10:14] I think, where the seed for going into the financial industry came. I had done,

[10:23] I had done some of our own investment work and, you know, had kind of enjoyed the,

[10:29] the Motley fool and that sort of thing and made some questionable decisions in stock picking at the time,

[10:40] as one does as a young adult. But so in that freelance work,

[10:48] I worked for an organization called Karma International,

[10:51] which is a media research firm. I’m not even sure if they’re still around actually. But so one of the clients who I did work for was a large international bank.

[11:06] And so my task was to evaluate coverage of that bank and their,

[11:14] the competitors in the industry that they had identified.

[11:18] A lot of what I ended up seeing was coverage of different advisors and their career path going back and forth or, you know, if they had gotten into some kind of trouble or if there was some kind of initiative they were advancing.

[11:36] So it really got me interested in the field and thinking,

[11:40] oh, you know, would I. Would I want to do that? And, you know, would I want to be more in, like, the.

[11:46] The investment research side?

[11:49] So it just kind of planted the seed, I think.

[11:52] And then as my kids got older,

[11:55] I wanted to go back to work full time and didn’t want to have to necessarily commute into D.C. so I was looking for something that would be easier to do in Annapolis.

[12:08] And so I got into property and casualty insurance and worked for a time for a nationwide agency.

[12:18] And then from there, since I had the life insurance licensing, was recruited by MassMutual.

[12:26] And so really at Mass, that was where I thought, okay, I. I do want to do this financial advising thing.

[12:35] Tara Bansal: So can I ask about how old you were?

[12:39] Bridget Borel: Uh, so this was not that terribly long ago. It’s just about 10 years ago,

[12:45] I think. I think it was 2016. I’m.

[12:48] My forte is not remembering dates,

[12:51] so I believe I joined Mass in 2016,

[12:59] so worked as an insurance agent, partnered with an investment advisor.

[13:08] So as a team, we brought in families and evaluated their needs. And it wasn’t true financial planning like I know it now in the kind of RIA world,

[13:23] but we did cover all of the places in a client’s life where money was involved, you know, in the similar way that a financial planner would do.

[13:41] So I just found that incredibly rewarding to sit in these meetings with clients and really get to know them at a pretty deep level and help guide them through these financial decisions across various areas of life.

[14:08] And I loved. I think it was particularly gratifying to me in that there was the mix of the analytical or intellectual with the relational,

[14:23] because I don’t think I could. You know, I worked with a woman once who had been a quantitative finance major and, you know, worked on Wall street, her first job at college, and basically, like, stared at spreadsheets all day.

[14:37] I was like, I could never do that.

[14:39] Like,

[14:40] I appreciate digging into spreadsheets and,

[14:43] you know, using them, but I don’t want to do that all day.

[14:47] And similarly, I love connecting with people and talking to them,

[14:52] but that’s not always the intellectually challenging part.

[14:56] Tara Bansal: So

[14:59] Bridget Borel: I love that being a financial planner satisfies both of those areas of interest for me.

[15:07] So while I was at Mass, I.

[15:10] I got separated from my husband,

[15:13] and that’s just a difficult time.

[15:18] And also in. So this was the end of 2017 when we separated, and two months later,

[15:27] my mom had a stroke and went into hospice care.

[15:31] So thus started like really the most awful year of my life.

[15:40] So 2018 was really rough going through all of the divorce process.

[15:47] My mom was in hospice a fairly long time. She was in hospice for about six months and she passed away in June of 2016.

[15:57] I mean, I’m sorry, 2018.

[16:01] And kind of a side note, there was a mass shooting in Annapolis 10 days after she was.

[16:10] She died. And I had a friend who was killed in that.

[16:14] So it was a really crappy year.

[16:18] Tara Bansal: The least.

[16:19] Bridget Borel: Yeah. So. But I think with respect to the divorce, you know, losing my mom in that timeframe I think kind of shifted the focus more as far as, you know, whatever he and I were disagreeing about and trying to work through in a settlement.

[16:41] It just felt so much less important as far as like, you know,

[16:48] I just lost the person in my, in my life and you know that this is all just going to work out and be fine. And I just needed to move forward.

[17:01] So our divorce was finalized in March of 2019 and I had at. At Mass in that time frame. I had wanted to.

[17:13] I had started studying for my Series 7 examination so that I could be licensed as an investment advisor in addition to being an insurance agent. But it was just so much, there was just so much that year between losing my mom and the divorce.

[17:31] And I decided this doesn’t feel like a safe place for me to be as a newly single mom in a commission only role and like starting something I’m, you know, still relatively new at.

[17:48] So I went back to the National Academies for a time. I thought, you know, this will be a good, like reset. I can figure out what my next steps are.

[17:59] Um, so I did that in 2019 and of course Covid came in 2020,

[18:03] but I think that was a good sort of step back.

[18:09] And you know,

[18:11] going back to what we were saying earlier about like having this nonlinear career path,

[18:17] I think sometimes it helps to step back a little bit to really get to know ourselves and level set and figure out what we want next. So that was where I started rethinking the financial industry again.

[18:34] I thought, you know, this really is,

[18:36] this really is a field I would like to get back into. So I just started kind of networking with people I knew in the industry around town and got offered a job at an RIA with.

[18:49] I was one of four advisors and so started working there and got my series 65, started working toward the CFP exam.

[19:01] And you know, there was a lot to be thankful for in, in that particular firm.

[19:08] But I,

[19:11] it didn’t quite feel like the right fit.

[19:13] The mutual insurance world, I think, is super competitive,

[19:19] super male dominated.

[19:25] And, you know, the RA world is less so that way. I think it’s definitely a lot more collaborative and collegial.

[19:33] Um, and, you know, I was one of two women, there were two men, so it wasn’t like I was the only woman in the firm. It still felt very siloed.

[19:43] Um, and I kind of felt like,

[19:46] well, if I’m gonna do this by myself, I might as well really do it by myself.

[19:51] Tara Bansal: Have the freedom to do it your way.

[19:53] Bridget Borel: Right? And,

[19:55] and I, I, I think coupled with turning 50,

[19:59] I thought, you know, if I’m going to do this, like, it’s time, let’s just go. And that was right about three years ago,

[20:07] right now.

[20:09] And I had been visiting my best friend from college who lives in Manhattan. And I remember sitting in her living room in her apartment and talking this out. And I don’t know, like, I feel like that was the moment where I decided, okay, like, I can do this and it’s scary,

[20:31] but essentially it’s just work.

[20:35] And I felt like I had been through so much emotional upheaval and challenge previous to that that I was like, you know, it’s just work. And I don’t know, I mean,

[20:51] some people will say to me, like, oh, like, you’ve taken this big risk of starting a business. And yes, that is true.

[20:58] However,

[20:59] you know, if everything falls apart tomorrow, like, I still have my cfp,

[21:04] I still have my experience and my skills. And it’s not like some, I don’t even know what to compare it to. Some kind of construction business, say, where it had to, like, put a lot of money into equipment.

[21:19] If I needed to, I could just move on to another role.

[21:23] So I feel like it’s not even that big of a risk.

[21:26] It’s more,

[21:28] it’s more that the onus is on me. Like, if anything’s going to happen,

[21:32] I have. You have that.

[21:34] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[21:34] Bridget Borel: So.

[21:36] So that’s where I am. And I decided I wanted to focus on women specifically going through divorce because I wanted to be the advisor I wished I’d had when I went through a divorce,

[21:52] because ironically,

[21:53] I was in the field, but I don’t even know that I knew the designation CDFA Certified Divorce Financial Analyst existed at the time.

[22:04] And the advisors I worked with were all kind of of the mindset of, like, oh, divorce. Like, I don’t want to touch that.

[22:10] Which, you know, I think is fair. Like, everybody has their,

[22:13] their appetites for different financial scenarios.

[22:17] I love that I get to help women through sort of that arc of the experience of, you know, especially if they come to me before the divorce, of, you know, helping them navigate that repair.

[22:34] Yeah. That period.

[22:36] And hopefully,

[22:38] you know, come to a good settlement and then starting the rebuilding of their new life. And that’s so incredibly gratifying to see my clients who, you know, I’ve been through that, you know, several years of that transition period, and I get to, you know, say, you know, a couple years past divorce,

[23:01] like, look at what we’ve done.

[23:03] It’s so much. It’s so exciting.

[23:05] So,

[23:06] yeah, I just. I feel really blessed in that regard. It’s a really great experience.

[23:12] And I also want to influence other women in the industry,

[23:19] so encourage women to come into the industry,

[23:23] but also consider leadership roles or, you know, founding their own firm.

[23:29] So those are kind of like the things that drive me.

[23:33] Tara Bansal: Very cool. I.

[23:35] I also.

[23:37] I think I passed two of the three C, D, F, A tests, and I thought I wanted to focus on divorced women after my divorce.

[23:48] And maybe it was.

[23:52] It still was too raw for me,

[23:55] but I felt like I could not because women going through that,

[24:04] Tara Bansal: it’s really hard.

[24:05] Tara Bansal: There’s a lot of big emotions. There’s a lot to deal with.

[24:09] And honestly, I felt like I couldn’t do it.

[24:13] So I am impressed that you can and that you are, because that’s something I wanted to do and I wasn’t able to do it at that time.

[24:26] Bridget Borel: Well, it did take me. It did take me some time.

[24:29] It had been the, you know, the idea of divorce as a niche had been suggested to me well before I chose that path.

[24:43] And I think it was just that, like, I needed to do my own healing first.

[24:50] And I’ve heard someone use the expression, let me see if I can get it right,

[24:55] that it works for us to share our experiences from the scars, but not from the wound.

[25:06] Yeah,

[25:07] so.

[25:08] So I think, you know, once. Once the. The scar tissue had formed,

[25:13] it worked for me. But I mean, it’s. It’s also just not for everyone. I mean, it is.

[25:20] It is a kind of large emotional load to spend a significant amount of time with clients in distress and not in a.

[25:32] An emotionally or nervous system regulated state.

[25:37] So I do, you know, I have to, like,

[25:40] protect my boundaries and my energy and,

[25:44] you know, really that capacity for that piece of the work.

[25:49] And I think financial advisors,

[25:52] really,

[25:53] if you can’t handle that at all, you’re in the wrong industry.

[25:56] Because divorce or not, like, people Go through trying emotional times and money is involved, period. Like it’s gonna happen.

[26:04] Tara Bansal: Those are tied together.

[26:06] Bridget Borel: Yeah. So.

[26:08] But I just, I think I get more of it because of the focus on divorce.

[26:14] There is some amount of really even in just structuring my time and how much of my business is focused on the,

[26:23] the actual CDFA part and working on a settlement and an active divorce compared to, you know, ongoing financial planning clients.

[26:32] I have to be mindful of that just to protect my own energy.

[26:38] But so far so good.

[26:40] Tara Bansal: Great.

[26:41] Tara Bansal: So a few questions. How, what can you share about your boundaries and how you are choosing to work now in a way that works

[26:52] Bridget Borel: for you with regard to the divorce work or just anything, Anything like time

[27:00] Tara Bansal: wise, emotional wise, divorce wise?

[27:04] Bridget Borel: Well,

[27:05] my youngest child is 16. He’ll be a junior in high school in a couple of weeks.

[27:13] Um, so I still,

[27:16] I think I, I still carry a little bit of my stay at home mom identity with me, although I, I try to be purposeful where I keep that.

[27:28] But part of my wanting to be a solo practitioner for now is that,

[27:35] you know, I’ve, I’ve only got two years left with him home and I, I want to be available to him,

[27:43] you know. And honestly, maybe part of this is a little bit of divorce guilt hangover.

[27:50] I don’t know,

[27:52] wanting to, you know, just make sure he has lots of parental time.

[27:58] So there’s that. So I do want to, you know, keep my schedule flexible and have plenty of family time.

[28:07] Um, so that’s, you know, kind of the immediate driver.

[28:11] Beyond that, I would say I try to have a good blend of, like I said, the, the active divorce work and the ongoing financial planning client work.

[28:23] And that seems to, that seems to be okay so far,

[28:26] sort of manageable.

[28:28] I think with time I might need to offload some, some of the,

[28:36] the active divorce process work maybe bring in.

[28:41] I’m not sure how that would work a paraplanner or you know, someone to help with that side.

[28:48] I, I just think it’s shorter,

[28:51] shorter, more intense engagements for that work.

[28:55] Whereas my ongoing clients, for the most part our truly active time is, is more in the spring and the, the fall with my like people who do surge seasons understand that,

[29:08] you know, the semi annual reviews and then, you know, onboarding new clients as they come in. But the, you know, divorce doesn’t exactly have a season.

[29:21] Tara Bansal: No.

[29:22] Bridget Borel: So,

[29:24] so that’s kind of going throughout. So I’m still kind of figuring out pacing of those things and as the,

[29:33] the divorce work picks up because I actually just Finished my CDFA designation in April.

[29:40] I think I earned the designation on April 1st,

[29:44] so it’ll be interesting to see how that that works out. But I’m definitely cognizant of that. And I think the limitless program has been helpful in.

[29:53] In as much as taking a kind of analytical eye to that and quantifying hours where we spend doing what,

[30:04] but also coupled with that,

[30:08] understanding what our energy is around each type of work or type of task that we’re. We’re taking on.

[30:19] So that into the equation.

[30:21] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[30:21] Bridget Borel: Yeah. So for now,

[30:23] it feels like a good balance,

[30:27] but like I said, I think I will have to just place stricter boundaries around the act of divorce work going forward,

[30:37] just as more clients come in the door.

[30:40] Tara Bansal: Do you have a number of hours

[30:42] Tara Bansal: you try to work each week or limit yourself to working each week or with kids?

[30:48] Tara Bansal: I know sometimes it’s just, like, you want the flexibility, and so that’s the priority.

[30:53] Tara Bansal: Right.

[30:54] Bridget Borel: So when my son is with me right now, our custody schedule is two weeks at each parent’s house at a time. Um,

[31:02] you know, he’s a little older, so he just doesn’t want to move around as much, which I totally understand.

[31:08] Um, so in the. The timeframes that he is with me,

[31:12] I’m probably working around,

[31:16] say, 25 hours a week.

[31:19] Um, and it depends if he’s in school in the summer. I’m kind of. He doesn’t have his license yet. I’m still transporting him everywhere. It’s a mess.

[31:26] Drives me crazy. But,

[31:29] yeah, then when he’s in school or he’s at his dad’s, then it’s probably more like 35 hours a week. I’m. I am pretty committed to having flexible Fridays. They don’t necessarily not work at all,

[31:47] but I have kind of gotten in the rhythm of.

[31:51] I do.

[31:53] One of my hobbies is Olympic weightlifting, which is just. It’s not. I’m not going to the Olympics, but it’s a specific style of weightlifting.

[32:02] Um, so Fridays are one of my lifting days, so I enjoy going to the gym midday.

[32:09] And,

[32:10] you know, maybe I’ll have some kind of networking meeting with a COI or what have you.

[32:19] And ironically,

[32:21] if I don’t have social plans on Friday evenings, I find myself working on Friday nights. It’s, like, bizarre. I don’t know.

[32:29] Tara Bansal: But to me, that shows you enjoy

[32:31] Bridget Borel: what you’re doing, or I hope that’s true.

[32:33] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[32:34] Bridget Borel: So I think it usually ends up being, like,

[32:38] a writing and marketing time. And I think maybe, because I know there will be no, you know, clients trying to reach me on a Friday night.

[32:50] Like, it’s easier to devote my energy

[32:52] Tara Bansal: to it, to focus on that.

[32:53] Bridget Borel: Yeah, right.

[32:54] So that’s. That’s kind of how it is right now. And. And I foresee probably pouring more once my son is done with high school being a little more.

[33:12] Not that I’m not focused now, but that I’ll have a little more room in my schedule for continuing to grow the business and, you know, just seeing what comes next.

[33:24] Tara Bansal: Where did the name of your business, Clairewell, come from?

[33:28] Bridget Borel: Oh, here’s a fun story.

[33:31] So the initial name of the firm was the Pearl Financial Planning with the idea of, like,

[33:39] something beautiful coming out of challenge.

[33:44] And turns out there there were actually a couple of different firms with pearl in the name,

[33:53] and one of them has a registered trademark that’s now registered. It was not registered at the time, but they were in the application process.

[34:00] So essentially they put pressure on me to,

[34:05] you know, cease and desist using the name. And that was very frustrating at the time because it was like, oh, my gosh, I just want to, like, get started with my business.

[34:16] And you’re in this totally different part of the country, but at the same time, it’s like we’re so virtual now that, you know, one option to me at the time was to, you know, offer to say, you know, well, I’ll only work with clients in the mid Atlantic or in airland or whatever,

[34:32] what have you.

[34:33] I was like, no, I’m not. I’m not going to limit myself to that. And,

[34:37] you know, I was only.

[34:40] I think this was about a year in when this started,

[34:45] maybe not even that. That long.

[34:49] And so I thought, you know, I haven’t invested that much in the brand,

[34:54] so,

[34:55] okay, I’m not going to fight this.

[34:58] And I worked with an attorney on coming up with a new name that that would be what they call a strong mark and that it would. It wouldn’t be easy to be challenged.

[35:15] So there wasn’t like, someone else already using the name.

[35:19] And it could over time be easily identified with my work.

[35:25] So I started basically with market research

[35:31] Tara Bansal: in

[35:33] Bridget Borel: interviewing existing clients and client avatars and getting into the, you know, that qualitative data of when they’re going into a divorce. What were they feeling as they went through it? Like, how did their feelings about money change?

[35:55] You know, and. And just that whole experience of, like I talked about earlier, having that arc of, you know,

[36:02] the before and through and after and how that. How their feelings changed about money over that Time.

[36:12] And one of the big things that came out was clarity,

[36:16] which, you know, I think is pretty common in financial planning. We hear a lot about that.

[36:22] So clairewell kind of came out. It was kind of the sense of clarity and light and well being wealth and honestly making up a word that didn’t exist. So a little bit easier to protect as a trademark.

[36:41] So. But I think that process, while it felt annoying at the time and someone reminded me, hey, like,

[36:50] this is the problem you get to take on because you’re a business owner and it’s like, okay, okay, I will, you know, re.

[36:56] Shift my framing here.

[37:00] And I think that was extremely valuable in that it really helped me understand at a deeper level what my potential clients were really feeling in this time period where they might be looking for advice and how they wanted to feel coming out of it.

[37:28] So that was a great branding exercise I did with a woman who has a brand strategy business.

[37:37] And so we dug into that and she’s helped me build out my branding and my website and everything.

[37:46] And we’re, we’re actually going through another revision right now and adding a divorce landing page and that sort of thing.

[37:55] But I definitely, you know, when I hear colleagues talk about choosing a firm name, I encourage them to, you know, look beyond your surname.

[38:05] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[38:06] Bridget Borel: A. Because that’s not a.

[38:08] That’s not a strong mark,

[38:10] according to my attorney.

[38:13] And you know, if,

[38:16] if you’re not putting that research into it, you’re missing an opportunity to really better understand your client base.

[38:25] And that, I mean, that informs everything I do. It’s not just the branding,

[38:31] the marketing and informs the entire client experience and how I make business decisions.

[38:39] So.

[38:41] Tara Bansal: So that ended up. It sounds like an annoyance. Helped you do something that was very beneficial.

[38:50] Bridget Borel: Yeah, for sure.

[38:52] And my mark is now registered as of a few weeks ago. So that was kind of,

[38:59] in a way, anticlimactic.

[39:04] It’s a long process to go through with the US Patent and Trademark Office getting that through.

[39:11] It wasn’t particularly onerous, honestly.

[39:15] It just takes time.

[39:16] Tara Bansal: Took a while. Yeah.

[39:17] Bridget Borel: Yeah.

[39:18] Tara Bansal: How long did it take?

[39:19] Bridget Borel: Do you know?

[39:21] I think about two years.

[39:24] And part of, I mean, part of that was the,

[39:27] the research in coming up with a new name.

[39:30] Okay. Um,

[39:32] so I, I don’t recall. It might have been more like a year and a half as far as like applying for the. And then get it mark and then actually having it registered.

[39:43] Tara Bansal: What. How many clients do you have and what is your vision for your ideal practice?

[39:50] Bridget Borel: Right. So I’m still sort of in my Nascent phase here. Um, I have 10 ongoing financial planning clients and definitely a fair amount of my revenue is coming from project work through divorce planning.

[40:08] And the goal is for most of the divorce planning clients to become ongoing financial planning clients.

[40:17] But that doesn’t always work from the standpoint of the asset level that they have or even just their. Their need. Like, if, if all of their assets are essentially in their 401k, then, you know,

[40:33] I can do planning work for them, but I’m not doing investment management for them.

[40:38] And that’s a. It’s kind of a slow sales process.

[40:46] So I would, I would.

[40:48] That’s kind of a little challenge I’m facing right now is like, okay, how do. How do I get some business in that doesn’t take quite as long. And of course,

[40:55] with divorce, you know, I have one prospect right now who I think is going to sign her agreement now,

[41:02] but I’ve been in conversation with her for almost two years and that’s, I mean, that’s not about the financial work. That’s about her deciding she’s ready to get divorced,

[41:16] which, you know, I have zero control over.

[41:18] So that’s a little,

[41:20] I guess,

[41:22] pain point for me now is figuring out,

[41:25] you know, I still am very passionate about that work and feel I can make a huge impact for clients in that work.

[41:35] But I want to make sure that, you know, not,

[41:39] not all of my clients coming in the door necessarily through that channel.

[41:45] And so, you know, putting some focus more on, you know, clients who are just ready to go with an ongoing financial planning,

[41:53] a comprehensive financial planning engagement.

[41:56] Tara Bansal: Can I. How many of your clients are couples versus just single women?

[42:06] Bridget Borel: I think right now it’s probably about 40% are married,

[42:15] including a gay male couple.

[42:21] Yeah,

[42:22] so like, not,

[42:23] not the, not the, you know, divorced woman client at all.

[42:29] But yeah, so. And then, you know, my clients who come to me as single women may remarry later down the road, so who knows?

[42:39] But yeah, probably about 40% are currently married.

[42:43] It’s. It’s interesting, I think, because I feel like this could be another niche on its own of the single person or someone aging solo.

[42:57] So that’s.

[42:58] I have a friend and colleague who focuses on widows,

[43:03] and he and I collaborate a fair amount,

[43:07] but I think that’s.

[43:09] That’s something I look at too, as far as, you know, being very attentive to, you know, if my divorce a clients stay single,

[43:19] you know, how does that impact their planning needs versus if they were to remarry?

[43:26] And of course, you know, eventually most of Us end up solo. So that’s always the part of the planning experience. Somewhere along the line.

[43:38] Tara Bansal: Yeah. Going back, you’re really. I mean, it sounds like it wasn’t just 2018, but, like, that time period around that. How do you feel like that has

[43:52] Tara Bansal: changed or shaped your business and how you work now?

[43:59] Bridget Borel: Well,

[44:02] it was such a formative time for me,

[44:12] and you and I have discussed the value of doing therapy and how that can shape us in so many ways. But I think, you know, I had done.

[44:24] Done therapy for a bit, you know, going into the divorce, essentially trying to figure out if that was the right thing for me to do. I mean, I had three kids.

[44:33] Like, I didn’t want to take this decision lightly,

[44:39] but I think when I.

[44:44] It must have been right about the time I decided to take on,

[44:48] start the firm, my own firm,

[44:52] I really kind of doubled down on therapy and was like,

[44:58] pretty much going weekly,

[45:00] at least three times a month. And that was so incredibly valuable to me,

[45:08] both personally and professionally. And I’ve heard someone in the industry say this. I. I want to say it was Daniel Crosby, But I’m not 100% sure that we, as advisors can only help our clients to the extent that we have helped ourselves.

[45:28] And so I.

[45:30] I know therapy still, you know, it’s. It’s much more accepted than it was, you know, maybe 20 years ago.

[45:37] Um, but I make a point of talking about my own therapy experience and how valuable I think that is, because I don’t want people to miss out. I mean, we could all benefit.

[45:50] Like, you don’t have to have had some,

[45:52] you know,

[45:53] trauma with a capital T to benefit from therapy. And we all have our. Our ways that we block ourselves and get in our own way.

[46:09] And it’s just been such a wonderful experience to me and expanded my life so much in getting to know myself

[46:19] Tara Bansal: and

[46:22] Bridget Borel: how I can.

[46:27] Just go for what I want and essentially and then also bring that to my clients and be. And not that I therapize them,

[46:40] but ironically. And I. I skipped this part,

[46:43] but when I was back at the National Academies,

[46:49] kind of in the COVID time frame, I did consider becoming a therapist.

[46:56] And I guess the short version of that is it would have taken me too long to get to the point where I could make the money that I could make in the financial industry.

[47:07] I mean, that’s. That’s one part of it, but I think it’s.

[47:12] I think I ended up in the right place.

[47:14] So that lens, I think, of self knowledge and growth and inform so much of How I work in my business,

[47:29] but also work with my clients and. And just honestly just hold space for them. I mean, I think a lot of financial advisors are just kind of. That’s just how a lot of us are built.

[47:41] Like, we’re.

[47:42] We just do that. That’s just who we are as people,

[47:46] Tara Bansal: I think, especially women, you know, even more so.

[47:48] Bridget Borel: Yeah,

[47:50] but there’s. I mean, there’s definitely skills around that that we can build in practice.

[47:55] And so all of that therapy experience has been huge for that. And I. I feel like I get to,

[48:03] in the limitless program,

[48:06] share some of that with my fellow advisors,

[48:10] so. And, you know. Cause sometimes we’re really, really hard on ourselves.

[48:14] Tara Bansal: Yes,

[48:17] I agree with that.

[48:18] I think that is all too true. And so that’s one of the things I feel like as a coach and a financial advisor, I don’t want to add to that because most of us are too harsh on ourselves.

[48:33] Bridget Borel: For sure. For sure. Any.

[48:37] Tara Bansal: What were some of the specifics or

[48:39] Tara Bansal: takeaways from your therapy that have helped you personally and professionally? If you’re willing to share, I understand it.

[48:47] Bridget Borel: I think a big one is that action quells anxiety.

[48:55] And the converse is true. Anxiety quells action.

[49:00] Actually, isn’t that. I want to say that’s.

[49:04] Oh, gosh, I’m forgetting her name.

[49:06] The coach.

[49:09] Tara Bansal: Liz Hand.

[49:10] Bridget Borel: You went through her.

[49:11] No, you went through her coaching program. Oh, Martha Beck. Yes, Martha Beck.

[49:17] I think I remember getting that specifically from her, but also talking about it in.

[49:22] In therapy specifically.

[49:24] So, you know, in the business, if there.

[49:27] Sometimes there are just things I don’t want to do for whatever reason, you know, maybe it’s out of fear. Maybe it’s because I just don’t like it.

[49:37] And of course, if it’s something I need to do,

[49:42] say, for, you know, compliance purposes or whatever, it’s just, you know, that it’s what the client needs,

[49:50] then anxiety can build around that. And so I think,

[49:54] you know, therapy helped me build that muscle of like, okay, like, you just break this up into digestible chunks and chip at it a little bit at a time and keep going.

[50:05] And then suddenly it’s not so anxiety inducing.

[50:09] It might still not be your favorite, but you feel a little more confidence and ease with it. And I try to impart that to my clients as well. Especially.

[50:21] Especially for women who are coming in and they weren’t the family cfo,

[50:25] and just anything dealing with managing their finances scares the living daylights out of them.

[50:32] It’s like, okay, like,

[50:34] just go. I want you to Work on getting me a list of your assets over the next week. And if you need to, like, just do it 15 minutes at a time.

[50:42] Okay. Yep. We’ll just get started.

[50:45] Tara Bansal: Get down.

[50:46] Bridget Borel: Yeah. Yeah. I love that.

[50:49] Tara Bansal: Oh, I have a million more questions for you, Ed.

[50:54] Bridget Borel: I can talk, Tara.

[50:57] Tara Bansal: What?

[51:01] Tara Bansal: What are you still learning and focusing

[51:04] Bridget Borel: on learning right now?

[51:09] I just love learning.

[51:12] I was doing a little exercise the other day, and I thought, gosh, you know, I could. I could just go to law school for fun or, you know, finally. Finally study finance in school.

[51:29] But I think the big lesson for me right now is.

[51:43] Really. I mean, honestly, it gets back to just, like, confidence and really believing.

[51:49] And I do.

[51:51] And sometimes I forget that. That my work has tremendous impact for my clients.

[51:59] And if I’m not making a point of bringing that out into the world, then I’m depriving them of that experience.

[52:09] Tara Bansal: The health and service. Yeah.

[52:11] Bridget Borel: Yeah. So it’s not, you know,

[52:13] shining my light is not.

[52:16] It’s not about me, talking about me, but really sharing the good that I can do.

[52:24] And so I think, you know, there’s still some little childhood shadows or what have you that. That make that challenging for me,

[52:33] but, you know, working on it.

[52:36] Tara Bansal: That’s great. How has your definition of success changed?

[52:41] Tara Bansal: Well, I guess, first, what is your definition of success?

[52:44] Bridget Borel: And would you say it’s changed either

[52:47] Tara Bansal: with time or working in this industry?

[52:51] Bridget Borel: I think largely I view success as security and options.

[53:02] I’ve never.

[53:03] You know, there. There are definitely material things that I enjoy,

[53:08] but I’ve never been driven to just make more money or grow an investment just for the sake of seeing the number get bigger. That’s kind of boring, honestly, in my mind.

[53:25] But, you know, for example, the time that I get with my son,

[53:30] that’s huge.

[53:32] Yeah.

[53:34] And the. You know, the options, you know, like, I’m starting to think beyond his high school time. You know, what. What’s next for me as far as, you know, where do I want to live and how do I want to spend my time, whether that’s with the firm or,

[53:52] you know,

[53:53] personal time.

[53:55] So I think, you know, for me, like I said, it’s the optionality.

[54:01] What was the other thing I said?

[54:03] Security.

[54:04] Tara Bansal: Security.

[54:04] Tara Bansal: Yeah.

[54:05] Bridget Borel: Yeah. So, you know, not feeling like the rug’s gonna be pulled out from underneath me and being able to have different options available,

[54:16] and I try to impart that to clients as well. And I think previously,

[54:23] how I might have viewed success,

[54:25] I think I might have,

[54:28] as a younger person, looked at it with more sort of External drivers,

[54:36] you know, just thinking of,

[54:39] you know, a particular salary or,

[54:42] you know. Yeah.

[54:45] And I think not so much that I really believed that, but that I just hadn’t learned enough about myself to understand what success really meant to me.

[54:59] And so, you know, I kind of love that. I. I do work around manifesting. I can’t remember if you and I have talked about the. The To Be Magnetic program,

[55:12] but the idea that, you know, we.

[55:16] We identify these things that are our true core values and true core desires in life,

[55:25] and if we’re taking aligned action toward those end goals,

[55:32] then essentially, like we already are living our dream life because we’ve embodied that.

[55:39] So, you know, I may not have my dream house on the water just yet,

[55:44] but if I’m taking steps in my life every day and embodying that feeling of this is how I want to live,

[55:54] then I’m already there,

[55:56] which is wildly liberating and expanding.

[56:04] Tara Bansal: Wonderful. Wow. Last question, if you have time.

[56:08] Bridget Borel: Of course.

[56:11] Tara Bansal: So if every woman listening remembered just one thing from our conversation today, what

[56:19] Tara Bansal: would you hope it would be?

[56:25] Bridget Borel: I would have to say, you are completely,

[56:30] absolutely capable and worthy of all that your heart desires on your own.

[56:41] No partner needed. No, you know,

[56:44] no external validation needed.

[56:48] You’re just capable and worthy.

[56:50] So go do it.

[56:50] Tara Bansal: You are. Yeah. Oh, that’s beautiful. What a perfect way to end.

[56:56] Tara Bansal: Thank you.

[56:56] Bridget Borel: Thank you.

[56:58] Tara Bansal: My biggest takeaway from today’s conversation with Bridget is the idea that sometimes we actually need to slow down in order to speed up.

[57:09] I’ve heard this saying before,

[57:11] and I heard this theme several times throughout Bridget’s story.

[57:16] It seems like that is the message I keep hearing. Or maybe it’s that I need to hear right now.

[57:21] After an incredibly difficult period in Bridget’s life, going through a divorce, losing her mom,

[57:28] and experiencing so much change,

[57:30] she made the decision to step back.

[57:33] She returned to the National Academies and gave herself some time to regroup,

[57:38] to get to know herself again and to figure out what she wanted next.

[57:43] And I loved what she said about sometimes needing to step back in order to level set.

[57:50] We can be so quick to think that moving forward means taking action,

[57:55] that we need to figure out the next thing,

[57:57] make the decision now, or keep pushing ourselves.

[58:01] But sometimes stepping back is the thing that truly allows us to regroup and move forward.

[58:08] I heard that again when Bridget talked about doubling down on therapy as she was starting her own firm.

[58:14] One of my favorite ideas from our entire conversation was something she shared.

[58:20] That as advisors, we can only help our clients to the extent that we’ve helped ourselves.

[58:26] I really agree with that, and it is something to remember.

[58:30] The time we spend understanding ourselves is healing, growing or becoming more aware of our own patterns isn’t separate from our work. It can actually make us better at our work.

[58:42] It can help us listen more deeply,

[58:45] hold space for someone else, and serve our clients in a much more meaningful way.

[58:50] And even Bridget’s story about renaming her firm reflected this too.

[58:56] What initially felt like an annoying inconvenience and obstacle forced her to slow down and really listen to the people that she wanted to serve.

[59:06] She learned more about what they were struggling with, what they really wanted, and the value she could provide.

[59:13] That clarity ultimately has helped her be able to better articulate who she works with,

[59:19] what they value, and move forward with greater, better intention.

[59:24] I think that’s the reminder I’m taking with me from this conversation.

[59:28] Slowing down isn’t necessarily the opposite of progress.

[59:32] Sometimes slowing down is what creates the clarity,

[59:36] the healing, and the self knowledge that allows us to move forward more powerfully.

[59:42] Maybe the question for us isn’t always how can I move faster?

[59:47] Maybe sometimes it’s where might slowing down actually help me?

[59:53] Thank you for listening to her life, her practice, her way.

[59:57] I hope today’s conversation gave you something to think about and will help you slow down and hear yourself more clearly.

[01:00:04] If you know another woman who might enjoy or get something from this conversation,

[01:00:09] please share this episode with her.

[01:00:11] And until next time, I hope you’ll ask yourself the question I ask every guest and I keep coming back to you.

[01:00:19] What are you giving yourself permission to want right now?

 

Resources Mentioned

Clairwell Financial Planning
Learn more about Bridget Borel and her work helping women navigate divorce, financial transitions, and ongoing financial planning.
Clairwell Financial Planning

Certified Divorce Financial Analyst® (CDFA®)
Bridget discusses becoming a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst and how her own experience with divorce eventually led her to focus on helping women navigate the financial side of divorce.
Institute for Divorce Financial Analysts / CDFA® Certification

Limitless Advisor
Bridget and Tara talk about their experiences in the Limitless Advisor community and the role it has played in their professional and personal growth as financial advisors.
Limitless Advisor

Martha Beck
During the conversation, Bridget and Tara discuss the idea that “action quells anxiety,” which Bridget remembers learning from Martha Beck, in addition to exploring it through her own therapy. Martha is an author, coach, and creator of Wayfinder Life Coach Training.
Martha Beck

To Be Magnetic
Bridget mentions the To Be Magnetic program and its approach to identifying core values and desires, taking aligned action, and thinking differently about what it means to already be living the life you want.
To Be Magnetic

The Motley Fool
Bridget talks about becoming interested in investing earlier in her life and mentions The Motley Fool as one of the resources she enjoyed as she began learning about investing.
The Motley Fool

Bridget Borel’s Bio

I founded Clairwell to provide a space for women and those who love them to grow and embrace their wealth and the lives they can build for themselves. My mission is to BE the advisor I wish I’d had when I went through divorce. 

As a woman in a male-dominated industry, and as a female firm-owner in an even more male-predominant group, I want to make sure everyone who has felt excluded from the table is included and welcomed to grow their wealth and their lives.

I work virtually from my home in Annapolis, Maryland. My three children who astound me every single day. My fun time is spent with them and with friends, getting curious about the world – cooking, discovering new cities, playing on the water and in the woods, volunteering, seeking out live music, and CrossFit workouts.

Email: bridget@clairwellfp.com

Website: clairwellfp.com

Instagram: clairwellfp

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Bridget.Clairwell

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bridget-borel-44177240/

https://substack.com/@clairwellconversations