[00:00] Tara Bansal:

[00:20] Welcome to Her Life, Her Practice, Her Way, a podcast for and about women in financial planning. I’m Tara Conti Bansal, a financial planner and life coach.

[00:32] And I believe that when women thrive in this profession, we all win.

[00:37] As women, we’re often very good at taking care of everyone else and not nearly as good at asking ourselves what we need or what we really want.

[00:48] Through honest conversations,

[00:50] we’ll explore what it means to to slow down,

[00:53] trust ourselves and build a life and practice that feels true to who we are.

[01:00] There isn’t one right way. There’s only your way.

[01:09] Welcome.

[01:10] This is Tara Conti Bansal and I am thrilled to have Liz Koehler here with me on Her Life, Her Practice, Her Way.

[01:20] I was introduced to Liz through Erica Bollinger, who I work with at Princeton Global.

[01:27] And Liz is with RAC Leadership. She is an accomplished executive coach and leadership consultant,

[01:37] and she got there after being with BlackRock for more than 20 years,

[01:45] and she was part of their executive leader lab and also part of, I feel like the Women’s Initiative Network.

[01:56] So she also has a focus on women in finance, and I just thought she would be a wonderful person to talk to today. So thank you for being here, Liz.

[02:08] Liz Koehler: Thank you so much. Tara. I love the work that you do, the thought leadership through your podcast, the work that you and Erica and team do at Princeton Global. So honored to be here.

[02:17] Tara Bansal: Thanks.

[02:19] I always start with the same question, but I would love to hear your story and just like how you got to where you are now because you’ve made some pretty big changes and to me, a fairly recent past.

[02:31] So.

[02:32] Liz Koehler: Yes, thank you.

[02:34] Yeah, you’re right. So I spent over 20 years in financial services,

[02:38] including as a managing director at BlackRock.

[02:42] I am a CFA charter holder. So I would say on paper, I would be the analytical one in the room.

[02:48] But along the way, I also decided to get my master’s at Penn in how mindset shapes performance,

[02:55] something I’ve always been very interested in.

[02:58] And as you mentioned, today I coach senior leaders, including a lot of people in financial services,

[03:04] on strategic leadership that enhances their performance.

[03:08] So that’s the quick intro on me.

[03:11] Tara Bansal: Much better than mine, but I feel like I forgot a lot of key

[03:15] Liz Koehler: things, but not at all how did

[03:19] Tara Bansal: tell me, like, even where you grew up and your family of origin, I love to know those details, too.

[03:26] Liz Koehler: Yeah, absolutely. So I grew up in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, just outside of Philadelphia with my family.

[03:32] Most of my family is still either in Pennsylvania or New Jersey or New York. So in the Northeast.

[03:39] I navigated my way down to Virginia for school. So I went to school at uva, which was great, and then got my first job back here in the Princeton, New Jersey area, where I met my partner, my husband, Jamie.

[03:51] Tara Bansal: And where did you guys meet?

[03:54] Liz Koehler: We met at a dive bar in Princeton called the Ivy Inn.

[04:03] We bonded over a game of quarters and Philadelphia Eagles football.

[04:08] Although I joke with my husband that we’re gonna have to tell our kids a better story. Like maybe we met at the Peace Corps or something.

[04:16] Tara Bansal: Probably not, but. And then how did you get into financial services and BlackRock?

[04:26] Liz Koehler: So I studied business in undergrad at UVA. I loved it.

[04:31] I was very interested in both marketing and finance as well as leadership.

[04:36] And I pursued an internship at the time with Merrill Lynch. Merrill lynch investment managers here in the Princeton area.

[04:42] Had a great summer, great experience, and that translated into a full time role for me in asset management, really in their marketing department.

[04:51] And then in 2006, BlackRock actually bought that part of Merrill, bought the asset management division.

[04:57] And so that’s how I became a part of Blackrock in 2006.

[05:01] And then really 22 years later, at a lot of different roles in product and marketing and strategy, working with clients. I had a really great career and experience at the firm.

[05:12] Tara Bansal: And what I always say, I feel like there’s some real advantages of starting at some of these bigger firms.

[05:21] What,

[05:24] what do you appreciate and what do you feel like was an advantage of coming from Merrill lynch and BlackRock?

[05:32] Liz Koehler: I couldn’t agree more. It was such a wonderful start to my career and I was able to join through the analyst program,

[05:39] which was just great training ground. Right. The firm really invested in us in our education and learning about the industry, the firm,

[05:48] the technicals, the product line.

[05:51] It was really nice to come in with a class of people across all different functions and geographies.

[05:57] Tara Bansal: How big was your class, I have to ask?

[05:59] Liz Koehler: Yeah, my class, I want to say about 25 folks in the asset management area and then maybe close to 200 if you included the investment banking class.

[06:10] But we had classmates from London,

[06:13] from all over the US and it’s nice because, you know, you miss college. Right. It’s a tough transition and so being able to have peers around you to learn from.

[06:20] I think that the firm did a great job with that.

[06:24] Tara Bansal: Yeah. Being a female at a big firm like that, what, what are some of your thoughts on experiencing that and some of the lessons you learned?

[06:38] Liz Koehler: Yeah,

[06:41] you’re right. There were, there were often times when I might be the only female Especially as I continued to climb in the leadership ranks at the firm. I think we were very lucky at BlackRock that folks did invest.

[06:54] I did have good sponsors, good mentors.

[06:57] I think there were times when I had to have the confidence to ask for what I wanted, what I needed.

[07:03] I was lucky to have people in my life who saw things maybe before I did, including roles. You know, I remember a story about a leader of mine who pulled me into his office and said,

[07:12] I want you to lead this. And I remember in my head thinking, he’s got the wrong person.

[07:16] But he didn’t. He just saw it before I did. And so I think I was lucky to be pushed in those ways.

[07:24] But I think, look, it’s important as women to continue to ask for what we need, ask for what we want, ask for the tough feedback that we might not always get,

[07:34] and continue to pay it forward. Right.

[07:36] Identify opportunities for other junior talent,

[07:40] pull other people into our office and say, hey, I think you’re ready to lead this.

[07:44] Tara Bansal: Very nice. And what motivated you to make this big switch to being a coach? Yeah.

[07:58] Liz Koehler: So although I worked in product and strategy and marketing and client facing roles,

[08:06] as I moved into leading bigger teams at BlackRock, I learned pretty quickly that the hardest problems were almost never the technical ones. They were most often the human ones.

[08:18] And so it was more about how people were handling change,

[08:21] how leaders acted when they were under stress,

[08:25] why high performing people still doubted themselves. These are things I really started to notice. They could have a huge impact on not just leaders, but the teams around them.

[08:35] And then I was always pretty obsessed with the question around, how does our mindset? How does what we think impact our performance? And so that’s really what led me to pursue my master’s at Penn in that space.

[08:48] By the way, quick fun fact. Angela Duckworth, the author of Grit and now the new book Situated, she was one of my professors at Penn, so that was quite a highlight.

[08:56] She is incredibly cool.

[08:58] Tara Bansal: Have you read the new book?

[09:00] Liz Koehler: I haven’t. I saw a really great preview. I can’t wait. I actually ordered it, so I. I think it’s going to be a really good one. Yeah.

[09:08] Tara Bansal: And did you do your master’s while you were still at blackrock?

[09:13] Liz Koehler: I was, I was. Which is ambitious and with some young kids at home. So that was. That was a journey,

[09:19] but one that required a lot of support. I am lucky to have a very supportive, wonderful husband,

[09:26] but it was great. It stretched me in all kinds of new ways. It really helped me to apply some of those learnings to my leadership style.

[09:35] But then. Yeah, back to your question. I would say the biggest twist for me really was leaving Blackrock. And it was scary because nothing was broken.

[09:45] I had a 20 plus year run at the firm.

[09:48] I love the people walking away from. Let’s face it, managing director level compensation is not easy. And so I doubted myself. There were a lot of kind of 3am wake ups saying, what am I doing here?

[10:02] And I would also say from an identity perspective, managing director at BlackRock was a way, you know, I introduced myself or a way that I was known.

[10:10] And so when that was gone, I was going to have to figure out what I was without it. But what I will tell you, Tara, taking that leap,

[10:17] I knew I was being pulled much more to what I really loved and what I knew I was really good at.

[10:22] And so now I get the chance to work with clients that I love. A really brilliant team.

[10:27] So it was this whole notion of like, feel the fear and do it anyway.

[10:31] Tara Bansal: Yeah. And how long were you debating or figuring out before you finally pulled the cord or made the jump?

[10:44] Liz Koehler: It was probably a couple years in the making. I’m a bit of a cautious person by nature and you’ll appreciate this, especially as a financial advisor and someone who guides other people being in this space.

[10:55] So it was a lot of conversations, of course, with my husband.

[10:59] Financial planning. Right. Really important thinking about the trade offs.

[11:05] But it was, you know, again, it just, it tended to be a bit of a calling to move toward the things I loved the most about my role and where I knew I could make a real difference.

[11:14] And so I also had very supportive leadership. So when I was ready to make the change.

[11:20] Still scary, but I. But I was ready.

[11:22] Tara Bansal: That’s great.

[11:23] Liz Koehler: Yeah.

[11:24] Tara Bansal: What taking a step back, what led you to even apply for the internship at Merrill lynch and get into finance?

[11:35] Liz Koehler: So what got me into financial services, I would say, was a combination of things. One was being surrounded by great people. Both peers as students in the university as well as professors who had spent years in, in the fields.

[11:51] I liked my classes a lot. I loved the idea of helping other people plan for their futures.

[11:59] I also remember a story with my own mom, actually, when she was determining whether she was ready to retire after working really, really hard as a teacher for a number of years in inner city Philadelphia and seeing a financial advisor come into our home to walk through the numbers with her and help her better understand the position that she was in.

[12:20] And just the sense of happiness and relief on her face when she realized, yes, I can Retire.

[12:26] That was a really pivotal moment for me with a person. That means a lot to me. So I think it was a culmination of,

[12:32] you know, life experiences, learning from people who were passionate about it,

[12:36] and then getting the opportunity to really dig in through an internship and keep going from there.

[12:42] Tara Bansal: Yeah. How. How are you intentionally designing your work now?

[12:51] Liz Koehler: Um, I would say when I think about my work as an executive coach, the people I love working with the most are leaders who are frankly already successful, but are thinking about what’s next or how do I lead a team without losing myself and what I love the most.

[13:12] You know, of course, part of coaching is about helping people understand their greatest strengths, their greatest weaknesses.

[13:20] But I think where I really shine is helping people who are currently operating at that high level,

[13:25] whether it’s navigating organizations or understanding what stakeholders actually care about,

[13:31] or influencing without authority,

[13:35] or getting more out of their people. Right. So those. That’s where my life and career experience and passions most intersect.

[13:42] I would say for advisors and folks who are listening, who are advisors, I think that translates pretty well in terms of influencing without authority, because that’s something that you have to do with your clients every day.

[13:51] Right. Since they don’t have to take your advice, but it’s really important.

[13:56] And then visibility is about things like referrals or centers of influence or being known in the community.

[14:02] So these things tick and touch across. Across roles.

[14:06] The last thing I’ll just say is when someone as a client is really willing to lean in with me, that’s where I see the magic happen. As a coach,

[14:14] and I’ll give a quick story. I have.

[14:17] I had a wonderful client. She was a senior leader in finance who was technically brilliant, really, really excellent.

[14:23] Everyone at the organization knew how smart she was. Her team loved her, but she just wasn’t making time to connect as much as she should with senior leaders in her space or to share,

[14:33] you know, her three year strategic vision.

[14:36] And she wasn’t nurturing her network enough. Right. She felt like, frankly, she just didn’t have the time.

[14:42] So I got to work with her. We built a plan with some small,

[14:46] you know, doable steps along the way. And the change was really powerful.

[14:51] And so all of a sudden, more people across her organization got to know her, got to know about the great work that she was doing. She gained more visibility and she got promoted that fall.

[15:01] And so when I got that phone call, it was one of the best phone calls I had had.

[15:06] And that’s an example of someone who really leaned into the Work with me.

[15:09] Tara Bansal: Um, and how long did you work together?

[15:13] Liz Koehler: Yeah, before that happened, about six months. I would say that’s a typical coaching engagement. They can, you know, be shorter or longer, but that was about a six month engagement.

[15:23] Tara Bansal: I’d love to hear more of how your engagements work. Like how generally do you work with these leaders and is it pretty much the same or does it vary a lot?

[15:35] Liz Koehler: Yeah,

[15:36] it’s. It look it just like I’m sure the work that you all do with your clients all the time, it’s pretty custom based on what their goals are. And so it can vary for sure.

[15:46] But I would say with an executive coaching engagement, it tends to include things like a hogan or some type of a leadership assessment to help leaders understand their strengths, their motivators, their areas of opportunity.

[16:02] When it makes sense. I love to be able to do a 360 feedback assessment for a leader to really help them understand across many of the types of people they work with.

[16:12] You know, what are things that they’re really good at and what are, what are, you know, target areas and synthesize that down into insights for them.

[16:21] We tend to work on an action plan and then again, typically over the course of six, maybe six to nine months,

[16:28] meet regularly. And you know, a coach is meant to be an accountability partner. A coach is meant to help you think about, you know, steps and experiments you can try to continue to improve.

[16:39] I would say a good coach doesn’t just make you feel good, they challenge you. Right. Maybe they make you a little bit uncomfortable, but that’s progress.

[16:47] And so again, they take many different forms. I also think a good coach takes the time to really understand the context in which a person’s working, whether it’s their industry, their company,

[16:57] how others around them are operating.

[16:59] So I think a lot of people can hold themselves out as a coach, but to do it well, just like anything else, is actually pretty hard. But it can also be really rewarding.

[17:11] Tara Bansal: When you say meet regularly, how often is it weekly? Is it bi weekly, monthly?

[17:19] Liz Koehler: Yeah.

[17:20] So I would say again, depending on the client, on average, I think two times a month is a really good cadence.

[17:28] Enough to keep things top of mind, keep momentum,

[17:31] but recognizing a lot of these folks are really busy and have busy schedules. So some clients prefer monthly,

[17:39] but I find that kind of every two weeks is a really good cadence.

[17:43] Tara Bansal: That’s. I agree. I noticed weekly almost feels too much and monthly doesn’t feel like nothing enough. So what, what values are guiding your work right now?

[18:00] Liz Koehler: I.

[18:00] I don’t believe that People need to choose between being high performing and human.

[18:08] The, the best leaders I have worked with are both.

[18:12] And I think oftentimes when you see burnout, it’s because someone thinks they have to choose one or the other.

[18:18] And so I think that human centered connection is a really important value and just how it ties to high performance.

[18:26] So you don’t. I think the point being you don’t need to choose one or the other.

[18:30] Tara Bansal: How has your like work evolved alongside your life as you’ve gotten older? I’m wiser.

[18:48] Liz Koehler: Well, I’ll tell a story. It’s not exactly answering your question, but I think it’s an interesting1. So 12 years ago my husband and I made a big decision together where he was going to become a stay at home dad.

[19:02] And he had a very successful career in it, project management.

[19:06] He graduated from nyu. He really liked his job.

[19:09] I loved my job and it was continuing to grow. And I think it was a combination of maybe a little bit the way we grew up and hoping to have a stay at home parent,

[19:21] but really, honestly the hours that we were both working was making it a bit unsustainable for us and also being present with our kids. So we were a bit of a crossroads and we made this decision.

[19:30] And I share this because I give him a lot of credit and I think it gets to your point about the evolution of life and work.

[19:38] It’s. It’s still not easy for a man to be a stay at home parent, in my opinion. You know, you would laugh at some of the comments that he has gotten over the years and it’s not an easy job,

[19:49] but he did it with a lot of confidence and a lot of grace and he gave me the chance to really invest in a career that I loved while still being close to my kids.

[19:58] I think what made it work for us, as you think about life and work is that either one of us could say,

[20:03] I need a break, I need help.

[20:05] And we meant it and we heard it in any given moment.

[20:10] What I would also say to anyone who might be weighing this question, because I did get the question both at BlackRock and now,

[20:16] there is no right answer. Right. So two full time jobs is hard.

[20:22] Being the sole breadwinner is hard. Being a stay at home parent is hard. So I usually say to people, figure out what works for your family,

[20:31] choose your hard and then talk to each other a lot.

[20:35] Right. Um, so just something that, about your question that struck me and certainly has shaped, if I’m honest with myself,

[20:43] my journey for sure.

[20:45] I I also think my definition for success has changed a little bit. Um,

[20:51] earlier in my career, success had a lot more to do with aum, with titles, with growth rates, with metrics. And I was good at hitting those numbers.

[21:00] But today, it’s more about, as we said, you know, helping leaders to be the best they can be for themselves, for their teams, for their firms,

[21:09] and also incorporating a little bit of the work I learned from our research at Penn around what is a good life and what is a whole life.

[21:18] So that was a long answer to your question, but I want to hear

[21:23] Tara Bansal: more of,

[21:26] I guess, how you define success now.

[21:31] I’ll just put that and. And how is.

[21:34] And I’d love to hear more about living a good life. Like, what did you learn around that, too?

[21:41] Liz Koehler: Yeah.

[21:43] So I think success for me now is,

[21:46] again, truly helping the leaders and the teams that I work with be the best that they can be. And what’s so fulfilling about the work that I do is if you help a leader,

[21:58] by nature, you’re helping the team beneath them. You’re helping the family.

[22:03] Yeah, the families of the teams that work with them. Right. So there is a ripple effect through the leader and the performance, the organization. So a hundred percent client first.

[22:12] I know you are exactly the same way in terms of defining success for myself also, being the best parent that I can be and how I define that, yes, I want,

[22:24] gosh, there’s nothing more vulnerable than having people in the world that you love that much that really have to make their own way in the world and define their own path.

[22:33] But at the end of the day, I try to remind myself, of course I want them to be successful, but my job is to create good humans. And so that’s another definition of success.

[22:41] Not an easy one, but one that I think about a lot.

[22:45] I think back to your question about some of the research we did at Penn and how that translates to. To work today. It’s funny, right? I coach people on sustainable high performance,

[22:55] but I will admit I still catch myself,

[22:58] as we all do, working longer and harder often than is sustainable. So I’m not here as someone who’s figured it all out. I will admit that.

[23:07] Tara Bansal: Glad to hear I’m not the only one.

[23:10] Liz Koehler: And look, I think it’s a risk. It’s a good thing. When you are doing something that you are really passionate about and love so much, that is definitely a risk.

[23:18] And I think about some days, I’m getting back to the pace that I may have left. Right. But I think what works for me is Just coming back to what matters most.

[23:29] And so it can be small things. It could be watching my sons play the sports they love. It could be dinner with my family when I can. It could be,

[23:37] especially as I get older, making more time for exercise, even if that means just a 25 minute walk with my dogs outside.

[23:45] We did actually research this at Penn. We studied more than 50 senior leaders across industries on how they hold well being and success at the same time.

[23:54] And really what we found was none of them got there on heroic discipline alone.

[24:01] First, they told us about a short list of things that they wouldn’t trade. So kind of like the ones I just shared with you.

[24:07] And second, they just decided in advance what they were going to do when stress and pressure really hit.

[24:15] So last thing I’ll just say is, is for listeners, for our listeners, I would say if you, you know, for yourself when you’re thinking about this, if you could write down maybe three things that you wouldn’t trade,

[24:25] whether that’s a weekly dinner, a workout,

[24:29] a Sunday, where you’re going to put the email away,

[24:32] you know,

[24:33] and then write down what you’ll do when a hard month hits and things start slipping.

[24:39] I think the best thing you can do is decide it now while you’re calm because you won’t make a good decision in the middle of a crunch.

[24:46] So that was a lot in one answer, Tara. But those are some, some thoughts that

[24:51] Tara Bansal: I had and I’d love to hear if you have an example of how you prepare ahead of time for when you have that tough choice or decisions to make.

[25:05] And to me, that’s a little bit,

[25:07] I don’t know if it’s a boundary, but it’s like preparing for the actions ahead of time.

[25:16] Liz Koehler: For me personally,

[25:18] I again, I get clear on my non negotiables and it’s not a long list because let’s face it, things are hectic. There’s a lot coming at everybody. We all have to balance more and more today, especially as technology ramps up and schedules are crazy.

[25:32] So it’s, it’s being kind of realistic with yourself about what those few non negotiables are. So being clear on that and what really matters to me,

[25:40] planning ahead with my calendar.

[25:42] So again, baking in some of those non negotiables, blocking time when and where I can,

[25:48] where it’s feasible,

[25:49] and trying to plan around that so that my calendar doesn’t run my life and then just over communicating right with the people around me. So whether it’s, it’s my partner, whether it’s colleagues at work,

[26:03] but just trying to plan in advance around the things that really matter. If I’m taking a day off to go do something with one of my kids,

[26:10] how can I plan ahead of time and ask a colleague for backup or for support?

[26:16] If there’s something that’s really important to me, how do I ask for help? I think women especially are not the best at this, but some of it is understanding what you need,

[26:24] planning the best you can, and even if you don’t, asking for help where you need it.

[26:30] Tara Bansal: What. How many of your clients are women? Like, what percentage?

[26:34] Liz Koehler: You know, I work with both men and women, so it probably is about a 50, 50 split.

[26:39] Tara Bansal: Okay.

[26:41] Liz Koehler: But I love working with women leaders.

[26:43] I do think there are some unique needs.

[26:46] Each individual is so different, as we know.

[26:49] But I love working with women. I do work a lot with people in financial services just because it’s where I came from.

[26:56] Tara Bansal: Yeah. What. What are. Well, here’s. How many hours a week do you want to work and how many would you say you generally are working?

[27:11] Liz Koehler: Um.

[27:14] Tara Bansal: Hmm. And you could say you want to pass on that question.

[27:18] Liz Koehler: You know what? No, I’m a unique breed. I. But. But I know myself, right? So, for example,

[27:23] we took in our master’s program this list of, like, character strengths.

[27:28] And my top one was perseverance. So that’s good and bad in that I have to be careful because I love what I do, and so I tend probably more toward doing more than I need or should.

[27:42] What I’ve learned, even through clients, is we always have to be aware of when our strengths get overused. And so for me,

[27:48] and I’m sure, like many of your listeners who are ambitious, hardworking people,

[27:52] perseverance sounds like a lovely thing until you realize when overused, you run the risk of either burning out your people or burning out yourself. And so I would say, back to your point about what I’ve learned over the years is rest is really important,

[28:08] even micro bursts of rest. And we have to be aware and intentional with it. So I’ve gotten much better at that as I’ve gotten older.

[28:18] Oh.

[28:19] At the same time, I love to be busy. And so having a target number of hours I don’t think I’d be very good at.

[28:26] But I would say, like, paying attention to the importance of rest and having more balance for everybody who’s listening, I would encourage it matters more than we realize.

[28:37] Tara Bansal: So how do you do the micro rest during an ideal week?

[28:42] Liz Koehler: So I’ve done a lot of research on this too. And there’s so many different types of micro arrest that exist out there.

[28:49] Again,

[28:49] taking a walk, humor,

[28:51] turning off your devices, taking,

[28:54] you know, a quick rest,

[28:56] hugging a dog. Like there’s so many things. And I think the key is figuring out what works for you. Because what works for you may not work for anybody else.

[29:04] For me, I would say recently,

[29:07] getting outside for a quick walk, even for five or 10 minutes is really restorative. Humor for me is really restorative. Watching something funny, having a good laugh,

[29:17] talking to a supportive friend.

[29:20] They’re all really good micro moments for me.

[29:23] I’m curious, do you have any, what’s your micro moment preference?

[29:27] Tara Bansal: Mine is to go for a walk outside.

[29:30] Even if it’s just like five minutes or,

[29:34] you know, and, and if it is probably five minutes, I will just stand outside and put my face to the sun. Hopefully there is a sun. But even if, even if there’s not,

[29:45] I just being outside to be like even feeling a breeze on my face or just having a change of scenery is what I go to and crave. So I don’t have a dog, so I don’t have that.

[29:59] Liz Koehler: They’re,

[30:01] they’re a lot of work.

[30:03] I have two and they’re very naughty, but they’re, they’re sweet.

[30:06] So yeah, there’s three types of so micro, mezzo and macro recovery.

[30:10] They all matter.

[30:12] Um, micro again are those tiny moments. They could be again five minutes, but spacing them throughout the day really matter,

[30:19] mezzo could be,

[30:21] you know, getting some good sleep, going out for a nice dinner, having a good meal.

[30:25] And then macro is truly taking that vacation. Those holidays, there’s more extended periods of rest. And, and the research points to all three matter.

[30:35] Um, you have to be realistic with when you can take, especially the macro ones. But the key really is about consistency.

[30:41] And I think we underrate the micro moments, especially during busy days.

[30:46] Tara Bansal: So, yeah,

[30:48] it’s funny when I,

[30:50] I guess it was maybe my second or third job,

[30:54] I would like work through lunch and because I wanted to be productive and be able to. And now it’s just funny that the more I’ve learned, the more it’s like, no, take a break for lunch instead of working through lunch.

[31:11] And I think a lot of people, I think that’ something we’ve learned and has made a difference in just at least for me, in the world I live in. Hearing more about it and incorporating that too.

[31:25] Liz Koehler: We show up better. We show up better for clients. Our brain can process the world around us.

[31:31] I agree with you for many, many Years I thought it was a badge of honor to just keep powering through. But then I realized by the end of the day, I was a much lesser version of what I could have been if I had just taken some, some breaks.

[31:42] Tara Bansal: Yeah, and you’re not as efficient. That’s the other thing they show. So then even though you’re working hard, maybe not quite as efficiently.

[31:50] So, yeah, agreed.

[31:54] What,

[31:55] what are you intentionally creating right now in your life?

[31:59] Liz Koehler: Ooh,

[32:02] Tara Bansal: what’s the focus for you?

[32:05] Liz Koehler: Yeah,

[32:08] so I, I, I am doing some specific work with some colleagues around women leadership programs and, and new thought leadership based on the kind of thousands of hours we’ve spent working with leaders,

[32:24] particularly around where we can, unintentionally,

[32:28] or in the spirit of trying to do the right thing,

[32:31] give away our authority.

[32:33] And so we’ve been doing some just interesting work on how to take what can oftentimes be the vague feedback we might receive about things like executive presence or influence and translate that into specific actionable,

[32:45] coachable behaviors to help leaders better understand the gap that can exist between their intention and how they’re perceived.

[32:54] Because the reality is oftentimes with leadership and you know this, right, like,

[32:59] and we may have the best of intentions,

[33:02] but ultimately we’re going to be judged or, you know,

[33:07] others are going to observe our leadership through, through what we do and through our actions and our behaviors. And it’s very hard as humans to kind of see ourselves, to see our reputation, to see our behaviors.

[33:18] I think that’s where coaching can be so effective.

[33:21] And so I’m working on some more programs alongside some of my colleagues that help address that for people, help better define and get them actionable,

[33:31] coachable action plans,

[33:37] continuing to, again, just be the very best executive coach that I can be for leaders,

[33:41] constantly honing my craft, constantly reading, constantly reflecting on my own corporate experience,

[33:47] constantly talking to other thought leaders in this space to make sure we have the information we need to be most effective.

[33:55] And I think just always trying to be the best parent that I can be, especially to high school and middle school boys.

[34:02] Tara Bansal: I’d love to hear more on how you work with colleagues.

[34:07] Liz Koehler: Yeah.

[34:07] Tara Bansal: How does that work where you are?

[34:09] Liz Koehler: Of course. So I’m part of a wonderful firm, a boutique executive coaching firm called Rec Leadership.

[34:15] And it’s comprised of a team of consultants who have a mix, and many of them have PhDs,

[34:22] many of them have real world experience, whether it’s in human resources or with talent, or in my case, kind of in the corporate space.

[34:30] And so I would say with that firm as well as other coaches and experts, just consistently being able to.

[34:40] Consistently being able to share research that we’ve found, articles that are thought provoking,

[34:47] you know, experiences.

[34:49] We’re very serious about keeping confidentiality, but talking about scenarios, those together, I think having those thought partners,

[34:58] people who can challenge you to just be better, is really important in any, in any industry, in any role.

[35:06] Tara Bansal: And I know you’ve done these get togethers that I’ve had the pleasure of going to where you just share incredible knowledge. And one was around just what you were saying, just how you may be perceived and giving away our power and that.

[35:28] How do you plan those and where did that come from? Even.

[35:34] Liz Koehler: Thank you for asking. I’m so glad you could come. It was lovely to have you there.

[35:38] So I can’t take credit for this, really. The, the gentleman who started the firm that I now work for has always been a firm believer and I completely agree in that.

[35:49] So oftentimes, busy professionals, busy leaders,

[35:52] don’t have a whole lot of extra time to nurture the networks that they want to, to meet other great people in the industry,

[36:00] to expand their own circles because they’re so busy, because they have so much going on.

[36:04] And it gets lonelier as we climb. We know that, right? Leaders, as they climb, it’s lonelier at the top. And so we try to really create intentional spaces for leaders to get together with others that we think can help support them,

[36:22] engage them, help them learn. Just good people to meet. And so we try to create these forums, these events where we can pull great people together, oftentimes their clients, their colleagues, their other coaches to convene.

[36:37] Sometimes we will have topics like, you know, what you just described, or we’ll have panel discussions around what it really means to lead today in an ever changing space.

[36:47] Sometimes we’ll just create the space for people to meet and get to know each other.

[36:51] And so that’s truly what it is, it’s connection. Selfishly, we get the chance to see a lot of our favorite people in one place,

[36:59] but it’s something that we found to be valuable to people and so we hope to keep doing it.

[37:04] Tara Bansal: And that brings up. You have done a lot of giving back to the community and how,

[37:14] I mean,

[37:15] how have you done that?

[37:17] And I don’t know what recommendations or lessons do you have around doing it?

[37:26] Liz Koehler: Yeah, I am very fortunate to have been able to be involved in some great organizations. One that I’ll call out specifically is ARM in arm, which is a nonprofit in our area that helps families across Mercer county who are food, housing, or job insecure and offer them support.

[37:43] I’ve been able to be on the board for 10 years. I was actually introduced and invited from a former BlackRock colleague, which I’ll be very grateful for forever.

[37:52] And I just started by participating in one of their events, and I learned more about the organization, got to know the people, and really wanted to get involved.

[38:00] And so it’s given me a lot. It’s given me a lot of joy in terms of giving back. It’s given me a lot of perspective and how lucky we are.

[38:07] And I’ve just met some incredible people that I wouldn’t have met otherwise. And so I think to your point, I just highly encourage folks who are listening if you aren’t already involved in some way.

[38:17] It doesn’t have to be a board position, per se, although that’s amazing experience,

[38:22] but just something that you’re passionate about, taking one small step to learning more about some of the nonprofits and organizations in your area.

[38:30] It’s incredibly meaningful and there are benefits you may not even realize that come from it,

[38:35] but it’s a great way to give back. So I’m very happy and will continue to look for those opportunities.

[38:43] Tara Bansal: What I’m trying to think, how to phrase this. What would you say is, like, the biggest lesson you’ve learned over your life so far?

[38:59] Liz Koehler: Wow,

[39:08] That’s a. That’s a good one. I’m pausing because it’s. There’s so many, Tara,

[39:12] so many lessons.

[39:14] Many learned the hard way.

[39:22] I guess it’s. So it’s okay to fail.

[39:25] And I share that because it’s one that was really hard for me growing up. I,

[39:31] again, like many, I’m sure you and many others was,

[39:34] you know, used to passing the test or working hard and getting something.

[39:41] Tara Bansal: And doing well.

[39:42] Liz Koehler: Yeah, and doing well.

[39:45] And so I’ll give an example that I think will resonate with our industry. Right.

[39:51] Although it’s just one example of many failures I’ve learned from and bounced back from.

[39:57] So I failed the CFA twice.

[40:01] I’ll explain it. So I was 22 years old. I was in a new city and a new job. I was missing my college friends. I took the 7, I took the 66, and I jumped into the CFA.

[40:10] And this is pretty symbolic of, I think, the ambitious person that I was for. For a while.

[40:20] I passed level one. Right. Five months of studying, spending time in college libraries was fortunate to pass. And then you roll into year two.

[40:29] Work’s getting harder.

[40:31] I spent many nights and weekends studying and I failed, and I failed level two.

[40:36] And I think for me, at that moment, because of what we just described, you’re, you know, generally used to being successful. I. It kind of.

[40:44] I kind of landed flat on that. It was a hard one to stomach, especially after all that time and that commitment.

[40:52] And so I said, okay, I’m gonna pull myself up. I’m gonna do it again. And I passed level two the second time.

[40:59] And now a few years have gone by. I’m in my 20s, and so I go for level three, thinking, here we go. I got this. We’re gonna wrap this up.

[41:05] We’re gonna be good.

[41:06] And I get the results back. And I had failed level three.

[41:10] And at this point, Tara, I’m thinking,

[41:13] oh, my gosh. Like, there’s no guarantee I’m gonna pass this thing. Am I gonna, like, go through my whole twenties just studying on nights and weekends? Like, what am I doing?

[41:22] All my friends are having a good time.

[41:24] Um,

[41:26] and so I finally decided I’m gonna give this another shot. And the reason I share the story. It’s just one kind of example, is when I got that letter in the mail that I had passed,

[41:35] it was so much sweeter than any of the easy wins I had gotten in my life. Right. And it was so much more about that notion of perseverance and just sticking with it.

[41:45] And. And it.

[41:46] It ties back to clients now, because I talk to incredibly smart clients who say, like, I’m just not natural at this. And I think there are very few naturals.

[41:56] I think sometimes it’s about just keep going,

[42:03] Tara Bansal: keep learning, and keep. Yeah. Oh, thank you for sharing that.

[42:08] Liz Koehler: Of course.

[42:08] Tara Bansal: I mean,

[42:09] because before I even asked it, I was almost thinking of asking, what is something you failed at and what did you learn from?

[42:18] And so you kind of answered both at the same time. But, yeah, for me,

[42:23] I.

[42:25] I failed my PhD qualifiers the first time, and I was just, like,

[42:30] devastated. I was the only one that failed, and I was just not used to that. And I was like,

[42:37] do I even want to try?

[42:39] I don’t know if you had that same, like. And even with the cfp, like, I was like, if I don’t pass, I’m not sure I’m doing this again.

[42:48] Thankfully, I passed,

[42:49] so.

[42:51] And yeah.

[42:53] Oh, thank you so much for all your time and wisdom. I have one last question.

[42:58] Liz Koehler: Of course.

[42:59] Tara Bansal: So if every woman listening remembered just one thing from our conversation today, what would you hope it would be?

[43:10] Liz Koehler: Oof.

[43:12] So good. Tara.

[43:14] Um.

[43:16] Look,

[43:17] earlier in my career,

[43:19] managing director at Blackrock was a story I told about myself.

[43:23] Uh, and when I left, when I chose to leave, I, I had to write a whole new one. And it was one of the hardest, but also one of the best things I’ve ever done.

[43:32] So what I would say is for the listeners, you know, the story you tell about yourself is a leadership decision.

[43:40] So just make sure it’s one that you actually choose.

[43:42] Hmm.

[43:43] Tara Bansal: That’s beautiful. Oh, so good.

[43:46] So,

[43:47] because that was so wise and concise, is there any question you wish I had asked that you would like to answer or share?

[43:57] Liz Koehler: Hmm.

[44:00] Um,

[44:02] maybe this idea, you know, you asked great questions, as you always do.

[44:06] Just more of a theme about giving yourself grace.

[44:10] And particularly for women, this notion of imposter syndrome continues to, to come up even in some of the most senior and, and qualified people. And I think,

[44:23] you know, especially in high performers,

[44:25] it rarely looks like insecurity.

[44:29] It looks like things like, you know, over preparing or not delegating or brushing off compliments or saying yes to everything. Right. So nobody can say you didn’t deliver on something.

[44:40] Um, and so I would just say for those folks who are grappling with that, there are a couple of strategies that I’ve talked to women and, and men and women clients about,

[44:51] you know, just some practical things if you don’t already do. You keep a folder of some of your wins. Right. Great deals that you’ve won.

[44:58] Thank you. Notes from clients or colleagues. People have been appreciative of the work that you’ve done.

[45:03] Just to remind yourself, especially on those tough days,

[45:06] um, what you are capable of and what you have accomplished,

[45:09] done consistently. That could be really powerful.

[45:12] I also heard from a coach of high performance athletes. He asks his high performing athletes at the end of each day to take 60 seconds to say, what are three things I did well today?

[45:23] It’s a little different than gratitude, which is great too, but it’s more around, you know, what are three things I did well? Whether it was delivering for a client, cooking a good meal.

[45:32] Right. You know, going for that run, I wanted to go for it. It doesn’t matter.

[45:36] But just doing it consistently and revisiting it can be really powerful.

[45:41] Tara Bansal: And then just going to open yourself up and acknowledge like that those positive things you’re doing. Yeah, totally.

[45:48] Liz Koehler: And then just finally going back to like one of the stories I had about some of the incredible leaders who saw things in me before I saw them in myself. Just being open to it.

[45:56] Right. I mentioned the story around someone who tapped me for a senior role to run something and I was like, oh, he’s got the wrong person.

[46:03] He didn’t.

[46:05] Right. And so confidence doesn’t come sometimes before we do the thing. It comes once we. Once we do the thing. And so paying attention to the people who know us best, who might be pushing us to try something or take on a new challenge, just being open to it.

[46:21] So that was just top of mind from some conversations I had with clients just this week. So thank you for letting me share that.

[46:27] Tara Bansal: No, and I feel like that’s often what a coach can also do,

[46:31] is, like, be that outside encouragement and supporter and help you stretch and grow for where.

[46:42] Where you’re ready and maybe you’re not ready to admit it or ready to do.

[46:48] Liz Koehler: Absolutely.

[46:49] Tara Bansal: Yeah. Thank you so much for being here. And this was such a joy.

[46:54] Liz Koehler: Oh, thank you, Tara. For me, too.

[46:58] Tara Bansal: There were so many things in this conversation that I wanted to pick as my key takeaway.

[47:04] There was the three different kinds of rest and how much we underestimate those micro moments of rest.

[47:14] There was the giving away our power and our influence where we don’t realize how we’re perceived and honestly don’t see our own blind spots. And to think about that.

[47:28] And the other one was Liz’s talking about perseverance as being one of her greatest strengths.

[47:38] And I truly believe almost every strength taken to an extreme is a weakness.

[47:45] And when she mentioned the perseverance that she has to realize that taken to an extreme can cause herself or those around her to be burnt out and to be aware of that.

[48:00] All of those were so many great things.

[48:03] But my key takeaway that I keep coming back to is this idea of being willing to fail.

[48:11] Sometimes I think we wait for confidence before we’re willing to do something.

[48:15] We think, once I feel ready,

[48:18] once I know I can do this, then I’ll take the risk.

[48:21] But I truly believe that confidence often doesn’t come first.

[48:26] Sometimes we have to do the thing before we feel ready, and the confidence comes because we were willing to try,

[48:33] or we get changed through the actual trying and doing it and maybe through the failure, too?

[48:40] And it leaves me with a question that feels really important for me right now.

[48:45] Once I admit what I want,

[48:48] am I willing to go after it and take the risk of failing at it?

[48:53] Because maybe slowing down enough to hear what we actually want is only the first step.

[48:59] We have to decide whether we’re willing to trust ourselves enough to go after it.

[49:04] And I think for me, that’s where the real courage comes in.

[49:10] Thank you for listening to her life her practice her way.

[49:13] I hope today’s conversation gave you something to think about and will help you slow down and hear yourself more clearly.

[49:21] If you know another woman who might enjoy or get something from this conversation,

[49:26] please share this episode with her.

[49:28] And until next time, I hope you’ll ask yourself the question I ask every guest and I keep coming back to you.

[49:36] What are you giving yourself permission to want right now?

Connect with Liz Koehler

• • Liz Koehler Linked In
  • RAC Leadership — Learn more about Liz’s executive coaching and leadership consulting.

 

Books & Authors Mentioned

• Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance by Angela Duckworth
• Situated by Angela Duckworth
• Angela Duckworth’s website

Additional Resources & Topics Discussed

• Hogan Assessments — Leadership and personality assessments used in executive coaching.
• Micro, mezzo, and macro recovery — Liz discusses three types of rest and why all three matter:
  • Micro: Brief restorative moments throughout the day, such as taking a walk, laughing, or connecting with a friend.
  • Mezzo: Longer opportunities for recovery, including sleep and relaxing meals.
  • Macro: Extended breaks, such as vacations and holidays.

• Rest and Recovery

  • Recovery from Work: Advancing the Field Toward the Future — Research exploring the importance of recovery during work breaks, evenings, weekends, and vacations.
  • Give Me a Break! The Benefits of Micro-Breaks — Research examining how short breaks can help reduce fatigue and restore energy.

Liz Koehler

Executive Coach and Leadership Consultant

Liz Koehler is an Executive Coach and Leadership Consultant dedicated to accelerating leadership effectiveness and building high-performance cultures. With over 20 years of experience in the high-stakes world of financial services, Liz understands how to compete and lead at scale while maintaining a human-centric approach.

Prior to her coaching career, Liz served as a Managing Director at BlackRock, where she ran multi-functional teams and was an established thought leader for financial professionals navigating industry transformation. Her tenure at BlackRock was defined by her ability to bridge strategy and empathy, overseeing growth for the Multi-Asset Solutions and Models businesses, leading Product Marketing and serving as Global Co-Head of the Women’s Initiative Network (WIN).

A 2021 Woman of the Year (Women in Asset Management), Liz now leverages her experience to sharpen leaders’ strategic edge and foster high-achieving, resilient teams that deliver differentiated performance. She serves on the boards of fintech Willow and non-profit Arm in Arm, and she lives with her family in New Jersey.

Specialty Areas

• Leadership Assessment
• Coaching, including:
• Leading through change
• Executive presence with depth and authenticity
• Strategic thinking in human terms
• Sustainable high performance
• Identity, confidence, and narrative
• Team Effectiveness and Team Coaching
• Keynote Speaking

Education and Certifications

• S. in Business from the McIntire School of Commerce at the University of Virginia
• Master’s degree in Applied Positive Psychology from the University of Pennsylvania
• CFA charter holder
• Hogan certification

Representative Clients

Allspring, Ardian, BlackRock, Bristol Myers Squibb, Chubb, Integrum, KKR, Morton Wealth, News Corp, PIMCO, TCW, TPG

Contact

Liz Koehler Linked In

RAC Leadership

[00:00] Tara Bansal:

[00:20] Welcome to Her Life, Her Practice, Her Way, a podcast for and about women in financial planning. I’m Tara Conti Bansal, a financial planner and life coach.

[00:32] And I believe that when women thrive in this profession, we all win.

[00:37] As women, we’re often very good at taking care of everyone else and not nearly as good at asking ourselves what we need or what we really want.

[00:48] Through honest conversations,

[00:50] we’ll explore what it means to to slow down,

[00:53] trust ourselves and build a life and practice that feels true to who we are.

[01:00] There isn’t one right way. There’s only your way.

[01:09] Welcome.

[01:10] This is Tara Conti Bansal and I am thrilled to have Liz Koehler here with me on Her Life, Her Practice, Her Way.

[01:20] I was introduced to Liz through Erica Bollinger, who I work with at Princeton Global.

[01:27] And Liz is with RAC Leadership. She is an accomplished executive coach and leadership consultant,

[01:37] and she got there after being with BlackRock for more than 20 years,

[01:45] and she was part of their executive leader lab and also part of, I feel like the Women’s Initiative Network.

[01:56] So she also has a focus on women in finance, and I just thought she would be a wonderful person to talk to today. So thank you for being here, Liz.

[02:08] Liz Koehler: Thank you so much. Tara. I love the work that you do, the thought leadership through your podcast, the work that you and Erica and team do at Princeton Global. So honored to be here.

[02:17] Tara Bansal: Thanks.

[02:19] I always start with the same question, but I would love to hear your story and just like how you got to where you are now because you’ve made some pretty big changes and to me, a fairly recent past.

[02:31] So.

[02:32] Liz Koehler: Yes, thank you.

[02:34] Yeah, you’re right. So I spent over 20 years in financial services,

[02:38] including as a managing director at BlackRock.

[02:42] I am a CFA charter holder. So I would say on paper, I would be the analytical one in the room.

[02:48] But along the way, I also decided to get my master’s at Penn in how mindset shapes performance,

[02:55] something I’ve always been very interested in.

[02:58] And as you mentioned, today I coach senior leaders, including a lot of people in financial services,

[03:04] on strategic leadership that enhances their performance.

[03:08] So that’s the quick intro on me.

[03:11] Tara Bansal: Much better than mine, but I feel like I forgot a lot of key

[03:15] Liz Koehler: things, but not at all how did

[03:19] Tara Bansal: tell me, like, even where you grew up and your family of origin, I love to know those details, too.

[03:26] Liz Koehler: Yeah, absolutely. So I grew up in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, just outside of Philadelphia with my family.

[03:32] Most of my family is still either in Pennsylvania or New Jersey or New York. So in the Northeast.

[03:39] I navigated my way down to Virginia for school. So I went to school at uva, which was great, and then got my first job back here in the Princeton, New Jersey area, where I met my partner, my husband, Jamie.

[03:51] Tara Bansal: And where did you guys meet?

[03:54] Liz Koehler: We met at a dive bar in Princeton called the Ivy Inn.

[04:03] We bonded over a game of quarters and Philadelphia Eagles football.

[04:08] Although I joke with my husband that we’re gonna have to tell our kids a better story. Like maybe we met at the Peace Corps or something.

[04:16] Tara Bansal: Probably not, but. And then how did you get into financial services and BlackRock?

[04:26] Liz Koehler: So I studied business in undergrad at UVA. I loved it.

[04:31] I was very interested in both marketing and finance as well as leadership.

[04:36] And I pursued an internship at the time with Merrill Lynch. Merrill lynch investment managers here in the Princeton area.

[04:42] Had a great summer, great experience, and that translated into a full time role for me in asset management, really in their marketing department.

[04:51] And then in 2006, BlackRock actually bought that part of Merrill, bought the asset management division.

[04:57] And so that’s how I became a part of Blackrock in 2006.

[05:01] And then really 22 years later, at a lot of different roles in product and marketing and strategy, working with clients. I had a really great career and experience at the firm.

[05:12] Tara Bansal: And what I always say, I feel like there’s some real advantages of starting at some of these bigger firms.

[05:21] What,

[05:24] what do you appreciate and what do you feel like was an advantage of coming from Merrill lynch and BlackRock?

[05:32] Liz Koehler: I couldn’t agree more. It was such a wonderful start to my career and I was able to join through the analyst program,

[05:39] which was just great training ground. Right. The firm really invested in us in our education and learning about the industry, the firm,

[05:48] the technicals, the product line.

[05:51] It was really nice to come in with a class of people across all different functions and geographies.

[05:57] Tara Bansal: How big was your class, I have to ask?

[05:59] Liz Koehler: Yeah, my class, I want to say about 25 folks in the asset management area and then maybe close to 200 if you included the investment banking class.

[06:10] But we had classmates from London,

[06:13] from all over the US and it’s nice because, you know, you miss college. Right. It’s a tough transition and so being able to have peers around you to learn from.

[06:20] I think that the firm did a great job with that.

[06:24] Tara Bansal: Yeah. Being a female at a big firm like that, what, what are some of your thoughts on experiencing that and some of the lessons you learned?

[06:38] Liz Koehler: Yeah,

[06:41] you’re right. There were, there were often times when I might be the only female Especially as I continued to climb in the leadership ranks at the firm. I think we were very lucky at BlackRock that folks did invest.

[06:54] I did have good sponsors, good mentors.

[06:57] I think there were times when I had to have the confidence to ask for what I wanted, what I needed.

[07:03] I was lucky to have people in my life who saw things maybe before I did, including roles. You know, I remember a story about a leader of mine who pulled me into his office and said,

[07:12] I want you to lead this. And I remember in my head thinking, he’s got the wrong person.

[07:16] But he didn’t. He just saw it before I did. And so I think I was lucky to be pushed in those ways.

[07:24] But I think, look, it’s important as women to continue to ask for what we need, ask for what we want, ask for the tough feedback that we might not always get,

[07:34] and continue to pay it forward. Right.

[07:36] Identify opportunities for other junior talent,

[07:40] pull other people into our office and say, hey, I think you’re ready to lead this.

[07:44] Tara Bansal: Very nice. And what motivated you to make this big switch to being a coach? Yeah.

[07:58] Liz Koehler: So although I worked in product and strategy and marketing and client facing roles,

[08:06] as I moved into leading bigger teams at BlackRock, I learned pretty quickly that the hardest problems were almost never the technical ones. They were most often the human ones.

[08:18] And so it was more about how people were handling change,

[08:21] how leaders acted when they were under stress,

[08:25] why high performing people still doubted themselves. These are things I really started to notice. They could have a huge impact on not just leaders, but the teams around them.

[08:35] And then I was always pretty obsessed with the question around, how does our mindset? How does what we think impact our performance? And so that’s really what led me to pursue my master’s at Penn in that space.

[08:48] By the way, quick fun fact. Angela Duckworth, the author of Grit and now the new book Situated, she was one of my professors at Penn, so that was quite a highlight.

[08:56] She is incredibly cool.

[08:58] Tara Bansal: Have you read the new book?

[09:00] Liz Koehler: I haven’t. I saw a really great preview. I can’t wait. I actually ordered it, so I. I think it’s going to be a really good one. Yeah.

[09:08] Tara Bansal: And did you do your master’s while you were still at blackrock?

[09:13] Liz Koehler: I was, I was. Which is ambitious and with some young kids at home. So that was. That was a journey,

[09:19] but one that required a lot of support. I am lucky to have a very supportive, wonderful husband,

[09:26] but it was great. It stretched me in all kinds of new ways. It really helped me to apply some of those learnings to my leadership style.

[09:35] But then. Yeah, back to your question. I would say the biggest twist for me really was leaving Blackrock. And it was scary because nothing was broken.

[09:45] I had a 20 plus year run at the firm.

[09:48] I love the people walking away from. Let’s face it, managing director level compensation is not easy. And so I doubted myself. There were a lot of kind of 3am wake ups saying, what am I doing here?

[10:02] And I would also say from an identity perspective, managing director at BlackRock was a way, you know, I introduced myself or a way that I was known.

[10:10] And so when that was gone, I was going to have to figure out what I was without it. But what I will tell you, Tara, taking that leap,

[10:17] I knew I was being pulled much more to what I really loved and what I knew I was really good at.

[10:22] And so now I get the chance to work with clients that I love. A really brilliant team.

[10:27] So it was this whole notion of like, feel the fear and do it anyway.

[10:31] Tara Bansal: Yeah. And how long were you debating or figuring out before you finally pulled the cord or made the jump?

[10:44] Liz Koehler: It was probably a couple years in the making. I’m a bit of a cautious person by nature and you’ll appreciate this, especially as a financial advisor and someone who guides other people being in this space.

[10:55] So it was a lot of conversations, of course, with my husband.

[10:59] Financial planning. Right. Really important thinking about the trade offs.

[11:05] But it was, you know, again, it just, it tended to be a bit of a calling to move toward the things I loved the most about my role and where I knew I could make a real difference.

[11:14] And so I also had very supportive leadership. So when I was ready to make the change.

[11:20] Still scary, but I. But I was ready.

[11:22] Tara Bansal: That’s great.

[11:23] Liz Koehler: Yeah.

[11:24] Tara Bansal: What taking a step back, what led you to even apply for the internship at Merrill lynch and get into finance?

[11:35] Liz Koehler: So what got me into financial services, I would say, was a combination of things. One was being surrounded by great people. Both peers as students in the university as well as professors who had spent years in, in the fields.

[11:51] I liked my classes a lot. I loved the idea of helping other people plan for their futures.

[11:59] I also remember a story with my own mom, actually, when she was determining whether she was ready to retire after working really, really hard as a teacher for a number of years in inner city Philadelphia and seeing a financial advisor come into our home to walk through the numbers with her and help her better understand the position that she was in.

[12:20] And just the sense of happiness and relief on her face when she realized, yes, I can Retire.

[12:26] That was a really pivotal moment for me with a person. That means a lot to me. So I think it was a culmination of,

[12:32] you know, life experiences, learning from people who were passionate about it,

[12:36] and then getting the opportunity to really dig in through an internship and keep going from there.

[12:42] Tara Bansal: Yeah. How. How are you intentionally designing your work now?

[12:51] Liz Koehler: Um, I would say when I think about my work as an executive coach, the people I love working with the most are leaders who are frankly already successful, but are thinking about what’s next or how do I lead a team without losing myself and what I love the most.

[13:12] You know, of course, part of coaching is about helping people understand their greatest strengths, their greatest weaknesses.

[13:20] But I think where I really shine is helping people who are currently operating at that high level,

[13:25] whether it’s navigating organizations or understanding what stakeholders actually care about,

[13:31] or influencing without authority,

[13:35] or getting more out of their people. Right. So those. That’s where my life and career experience and passions most intersect.

[13:42] I would say for advisors and folks who are listening, who are advisors, I think that translates pretty well in terms of influencing without authority, because that’s something that you have to do with your clients every day.

[13:51] Right. Since they don’t have to take your advice, but it’s really important.

[13:56] And then visibility is about things like referrals or centers of influence or being known in the community.

[14:02] So these things tick and touch across. Across roles.

[14:06] The last thing I’ll just say is when someone as a client is really willing to lean in with me, that’s where I see the magic happen. As a coach,

[14:14] and I’ll give a quick story. I have.

[14:17] I had a wonderful client. She was a senior leader in finance who was technically brilliant, really, really excellent.

[14:23] Everyone at the organization knew how smart she was. Her team loved her, but she just wasn’t making time to connect as much as she should with senior leaders in her space or to share,

[14:33] you know, her three year strategic vision.

[14:36] And she wasn’t nurturing her network enough. Right. She felt like, frankly, she just didn’t have the time.

[14:42] So I got to work with her. We built a plan with some small,

[14:46] you know, doable steps along the way. And the change was really powerful.

[14:51] And so all of a sudden, more people across her organization got to know her, got to know about the great work that she was doing. She gained more visibility and she got promoted that fall.

[15:01] And so when I got that phone call, it was one of the best phone calls I had had.

[15:06] And that’s an example of someone who really leaned into the Work with me.

[15:09] Tara Bansal: Um, and how long did you work together?

[15:13] Liz Koehler: Yeah, before that happened, about six months. I would say that’s a typical coaching engagement. They can, you know, be shorter or longer, but that was about a six month engagement.

[15:23] Tara Bansal: I’d love to hear more of how your engagements work. Like how generally do you work with these leaders and is it pretty much the same or does it vary a lot?

[15:35] Liz Koehler: Yeah,

[15:36] it’s. It look it just like I’m sure the work that you all do with your clients all the time, it’s pretty custom based on what their goals are. And so it can vary for sure.

[15:46] But I would say with an executive coaching engagement, it tends to include things like a hogan or some type of a leadership assessment to help leaders understand their strengths, their motivators, their areas of opportunity.

[16:02] When it makes sense. I love to be able to do a 360 feedback assessment for a leader to really help them understand across many of the types of people they work with.

[16:12] You know, what are things that they’re really good at and what are, what are, you know, target areas and synthesize that down into insights for them.

[16:21] We tend to work on an action plan and then again, typically over the course of six, maybe six to nine months,

[16:28] meet regularly. And you know, a coach is meant to be an accountability partner. A coach is meant to help you think about, you know, steps and experiments you can try to continue to improve.

[16:39] I would say a good coach doesn’t just make you feel good, they challenge you. Right. Maybe they make you a little bit uncomfortable, but that’s progress.

[16:47] And so again, they take many different forms. I also think a good coach takes the time to really understand the context in which a person’s working, whether it’s their industry, their company,

[16:57] how others around them are operating.

[16:59] So I think a lot of people can hold themselves out as a coach, but to do it well, just like anything else, is actually pretty hard. But it can also be really rewarding.

[17:11] Tara Bansal: When you say meet regularly, how often is it weekly? Is it bi weekly, monthly?

[17:19] Liz Koehler: Yeah.

[17:20] So I would say again, depending on the client, on average, I think two times a month is a really good cadence.

[17:28] Enough to keep things top of mind, keep momentum,

[17:31] but recognizing a lot of these folks are really busy and have busy schedules. So some clients prefer monthly,

[17:39] but I find that kind of every two weeks is a really good cadence.

[17:43] Tara Bansal: That’s. I agree. I noticed weekly almost feels too much and monthly doesn’t feel like nothing enough. So what, what values are guiding your work right now?

[18:00] Liz Koehler: I.

[18:00] I don’t believe that People need to choose between being high performing and human.

[18:08] The, the best leaders I have worked with are both.

[18:12] And I think oftentimes when you see burnout, it’s because someone thinks they have to choose one or the other.

[18:18] And so I think that human centered connection is a really important value and just how it ties to high performance.

[18:26] So you don’t. I think the point being you don’t need to choose one or the other.

[18:30] Tara Bansal: How has your like work evolved alongside your life as you’ve gotten older? I’m wiser.

[18:48] Liz Koehler: Well, I’ll tell a story. It’s not exactly answering your question, but I think it’s an interesting1. So 12 years ago my husband and I made a big decision together where he was going to become a stay at home dad.

[19:02] And he had a very successful career in it, project management.

[19:06] He graduated from nyu. He really liked his job.

[19:09] I loved my job and it was continuing to grow. And I think it was a combination of maybe a little bit the way we grew up and hoping to have a stay at home parent,

[19:21] but really, honestly the hours that we were both working was making it a bit unsustainable for us and also being present with our kids. So we were a bit of a crossroads and we made this decision.

[19:30] And I share this because I give him a lot of credit and I think it gets to your point about the evolution of life and work.

[19:38] It’s. It’s still not easy for a man to be a stay at home parent, in my opinion. You know, you would laugh at some of the comments that he has gotten over the years and it’s not an easy job,

[19:49] but he did it with a lot of confidence and a lot of grace and he gave me the chance to really invest in a career that I loved while still being close to my kids.

[19:58] I think what made it work for us, as you think about life and work is that either one of us could say,

[20:03] I need a break, I need help.

[20:05] And we meant it and we heard it in any given moment.

[20:10] What I would also say to anyone who might be weighing this question, because I did get the question both at BlackRock and now,

[20:16] there is no right answer. Right. So two full time jobs is hard.

[20:22] Being the sole breadwinner is hard. Being a stay at home parent is hard. So I usually say to people, figure out what works for your family,

[20:31] choose your hard and then talk to each other a lot.

[20:35] Right. Um, so just something that, about your question that struck me and certainly has shaped, if I’m honest with myself,

[20:43] my journey for sure.

[20:45] I I also think my definition for success has changed a little bit. Um,

[20:51] earlier in my career, success had a lot more to do with aum, with titles, with growth rates, with metrics. And I was good at hitting those numbers.

[21:00] But today, it’s more about, as we said, you know, helping leaders to be the best they can be for themselves, for their teams, for their firms,

[21:09] and also incorporating a little bit of the work I learned from our research at Penn around what is a good life and what is a whole life.

[21:18] So that was a long answer to your question, but I want to hear

[21:23] Tara Bansal: more of,

[21:26] I guess, how you define success now.

[21:31] I’ll just put that and. And how is.

[21:34] And I’d love to hear more about living a good life. Like, what did you learn around that, too?

[21:41] Liz Koehler: Yeah.

[21:43] So I think success for me now is,

[21:46] again, truly helping the leaders and the teams that I work with be the best that they can be. And what’s so fulfilling about the work that I do is if you help a leader,

[21:58] by nature, you’re helping the team beneath them. You’re helping the family.

[22:03] Yeah, the families of the teams that work with them. Right. So there is a ripple effect through the leader and the performance, the organization. So a hundred percent client first.

[22:12] I know you are exactly the same way in terms of defining success for myself also, being the best parent that I can be and how I define that, yes, I want,

[22:24] gosh, there’s nothing more vulnerable than having people in the world that you love that much that really have to make their own way in the world and define their own path.

[22:33] But at the end of the day, I try to remind myself, of course I want them to be successful, but my job is to create good humans. And so that’s another definition of success.

[22:41] Not an easy one, but one that I think about a lot.

[22:45] I think back to your question about some of the research we did at Penn and how that translates to. To work today. It’s funny, right? I coach people on sustainable high performance,

[22:55] but I will admit I still catch myself,

[22:58] as we all do, working longer and harder often than is sustainable. So I’m not here as someone who’s figured it all out. I will admit that.

[23:07] Tara Bansal: Glad to hear I’m not the only one.

[23:10] Liz Koehler: And look, I think it’s a risk. It’s a good thing. When you are doing something that you are really passionate about and love so much, that is definitely a risk.

[23:18] And I think about some days, I’m getting back to the pace that I may have left. Right. But I think what works for me is Just coming back to what matters most.

[23:29] And so it can be small things. It could be watching my sons play the sports they love. It could be dinner with my family when I can. It could be,

[23:37] especially as I get older, making more time for exercise, even if that means just a 25 minute walk with my dogs outside.

[23:45] We did actually research this at Penn. We studied more than 50 senior leaders across industries on how they hold well being and success at the same time.

[23:54] And really what we found was none of them got there on heroic discipline alone.

[24:01] First, they told us about a short list of things that they wouldn’t trade. So kind of like the ones I just shared with you.

[24:07] And second, they just decided in advance what they were going to do when stress and pressure really hit.

[24:15] So last thing I’ll just say is, is for listeners, for our listeners, I would say if you, you know, for yourself when you’re thinking about this, if you could write down maybe three things that you wouldn’t trade,

[24:25] whether that’s a weekly dinner, a workout,

[24:29] a Sunday, where you’re going to put the email away,

[24:32] you know,

[24:33] and then write down what you’ll do when a hard month hits and things start slipping.

[24:39] I think the best thing you can do is decide it now while you’re calm because you won’t make a good decision in the middle of a crunch.

[24:46] So that was a lot in one answer, Tara. But those are some, some thoughts that

[24:51] Tara Bansal: I had and I’d love to hear if you have an example of how you prepare ahead of time for when you have that tough choice or decisions to make.

[25:05] And to me, that’s a little bit,

[25:07] I don’t know if it’s a boundary, but it’s like preparing for the actions ahead of time.

[25:16] Liz Koehler: For me personally,

[25:18] I again, I get clear on my non negotiables and it’s not a long list because let’s face it, things are hectic. There’s a lot coming at everybody. We all have to balance more and more today, especially as technology ramps up and schedules are crazy.

[25:32] So it’s, it’s being kind of realistic with yourself about what those few non negotiables are. So being clear on that and what really matters to me,

[25:40] planning ahead with my calendar.

[25:42] So again, baking in some of those non negotiables, blocking time when and where I can,

[25:48] where it’s feasible,

[25:49] and trying to plan around that so that my calendar doesn’t run my life and then just over communicating right with the people around me. So whether it’s, it’s my partner, whether it’s colleagues at work,

[26:03] but just trying to plan in advance around the things that really matter. If I’m taking a day off to go do something with one of my kids,

[26:10] how can I plan ahead of time and ask a colleague for backup or for support?

[26:16] If there’s something that’s really important to me, how do I ask for help? I think women especially are not the best at this, but some of it is understanding what you need,

[26:24] planning the best you can, and even if you don’t, asking for help where you need it.

[26:30] Tara Bansal: What. How many of your clients are women? Like, what percentage?

[26:34] Liz Koehler: You know, I work with both men and women, so it probably is about a 50, 50 split.

[26:39] Tara Bansal: Okay.

[26:41] Liz Koehler: But I love working with women leaders.

[26:43] I do think there are some unique needs.

[26:46] Each individual is so different, as we know.

[26:49] But I love working with women. I do work a lot with people in financial services just because it’s where I came from.

[26:56] Tara Bansal: Yeah. What. What are. Well, here’s. How many hours a week do you want to work and how many would you say you generally are working?

[27:11] Liz Koehler: Um.

[27:14] Tara Bansal: Hmm. And you could say you want to pass on that question.

[27:18] Liz Koehler: You know what? No, I’m a unique breed. I. But. But I know myself, right? So, for example,

[27:23] we took in our master’s program this list of, like, character strengths.

[27:28] And my top one was perseverance. So that’s good and bad in that I have to be careful because I love what I do, and so I tend probably more toward doing more than I need or should.

[27:42] What I’ve learned, even through clients, is we always have to be aware of when our strengths get overused. And so for me,

[27:48] and I’m sure, like many of your listeners who are ambitious, hardworking people,

[27:52] perseverance sounds like a lovely thing until you realize when overused, you run the risk of either burning out your people or burning out yourself. And so I would say, back to your point about what I’ve learned over the years is rest is really important,

[28:08] even micro bursts of rest. And we have to be aware and intentional with it. So I’ve gotten much better at that as I’ve gotten older.

[28:18] Oh.

[28:19] At the same time, I love to be busy. And so having a target number of hours I don’t think I’d be very good at.

[28:26] But I would say, like, paying attention to the importance of rest and having more balance for everybody who’s listening, I would encourage it matters more than we realize.

[28:37] Tara Bansal: So how do you do the micro rest during an ideal week?

[28:42] Liz Koehler: So I’ve done a lot of research on this too. And there’s so many different types of micro arrest that exist out there.

[28:49] Again,

[28:49] taking a walk, humor,

[28:51] turning off your devices, taking,

[28:54] you know, a quick rest,

[28:56] hugging a dog. Like there’s so many things. And I think the key is figuring out what works for you. Because what works for you may not work for anybody else.

[29:04] For me, I would say recently,

[29:07] getting outside for a quick walk, even for five or 10 minutes is really restorative. Humor for me is really restorative. Watching something funny, having a good laugh,

[29:17] talking to a supportive friend.

[29:20] They’re all really good micro moments for me.

[29:23] I’m curious, do you have any, what’s your micro moment preference?

[29:27] Tara Bansal: Mine is to go for a walk outside.

[29:30] Even if it’s just like five minutes or,

[29:34] you know, and, and if it is probably five minutes, I will just stand outside and put my face to the sun. Hopefully there is a sun. But even if, even if there’s not,

[29:45] I just being outside to be like even feeling a breeze on my face or just having a change of scenery is what I go to and crave. So I don’t have a dog, so I don’t have that.

[29:59] Liz Koehler: They’re,

[30:01] they’re a lot of work.

[30:03] I have two and they’re very naughty, but they’re, they’re sweet.

[30:06] So yeah, there’s three types of so micro, mezzo and macro recovery.

[30:10] They all matter.

[30:12] Um, micro again are those tiny moments. They could be again five minutes, but spacing them throughout the day really matter,

[30:19] mezzo could be,

[30:21] you know, getting some good sleep, going out for a nice dinner, having a good meal.

[30:25] And then macro is truly taking that vacation. Those holidays, there’s more extended periods of rest. And, and the research points to all three matter.

[30:35] Um, you have to be realistic with when you can take, especially the macro ones. But the key really is about consistency.

[30:41] And I think we underrate the micro moments, especially during busy days.

[30:46] Tara Bansal: So, yeah,

[30:48] it’s funny when I,

[30:50] I guess it was maybe my second or third job,

[30:54] I would like work through lunch and because I wanted to be productive and be able to. And now it’s just funny that the more I’ve learned, the more it’s like, no, take a break for lunch instead of working through lunch.

[31:11] And I think a lot of people, I think that’ something we’ve learned and has made a difference in just at least for me, in the world I live in. Hearing more about it and incorporating that too.

[31:25] Liz Koehler: We show up better. We show up better for clients. Our brain can process the world around us.

[31:31] I agree with you for many, many Years I thought it was a badge of honor to just keep powering through. But then I realized by the end of the day, I was a much lesser version of what I could have been if I had just taken some, some breaks.

[31:42] Tara Bansal: Yeah, and you’re not as efficient. That’s the other thing they show. So then even though you’re working hard, maybe not quite as efficiently.

[31:50] So, yeah, agreed.

[31:54] What,

[31:55] what are you intentionally creating right now in your life?

[31:59] Liz Koehler: Ooh,

[32:02] Tara Bansal: what’s the focus for you?

[32:05] Liz Koehler: Yeah,

[32:08] so I, I, I am doing some specific work with some colleagues around women leadership programs and, and new thought leadership based on the kind of thousands of hours we’ve spent working with leaders,

[32:24] particularly around where we can, unintentionally,

[32:28] or in the spirit of trying to do the right thing,

[32:31] give away our authority.

[32:33] And so we’ve been doing some just interesting work on how to take what can oftentimes be the vague feedback we might receive about things like executive presence or influence and translate that into specific actionable,

[32:45] coachable behaviors to help leaders better understand the gap that can exist between their intention and how they’re perceived.

[32:54] Because the reality is oftentimes with leadership and you know this, right, like,

[32:59] and we may have the best of intentions,

[33:02] but ultimately we’re going to be judged or, you know,

[33:07] others are going to observe our leadership through, through what we do and through our actions and our behaviors. And it’s very hard as humans to kind of see ourselves, to see our reputation, to see our behaviors.

[33:18] I think that’s where coaching can be so effective.

[33:21] And so I’m working on some more programs alongside some of my colleagues that help address that for people, help better define and get them actionable,

[33:31] coachable action plans,

[33:37] continuing to, again, just be the very best executive coach that I can be for leaders,

[33:41] constantly honing my craft, constantly reading, constantly reflecting on my own corporate experience,

[33:47] constantly talking to other thought leaders in this space to make sure we have the information we need to be most effective.

[33:55] And I think just always trying to be the best parent that I can be, especially to high school and middle school boys.

[34:02] Tara Bansal: I’d love to hear more on how you work with colleagues.

[34:07] Liz Koehler: Yeah.

[34:07] Tara Bansal: How does that work where you are?

[34:09] Liz Koehler: Of course. So I’m part of a wonderful firm, a boutique executive coaching firm called Rec Leadership.

[34:15] And it’s comprised of a team of consultants who have a mix, and many of them have PhDs,

[34:22] many of them have real world experience, whether it’s in human resources or with talent, or in my case, kind of in the corporate space.

[34:30] And so I would say with that firm as well as other coaches and experts, just consistently being able to.

[34:40] Consistently being able to share research that we’ve found, articles that are thought provoking,

[34:47] you know, experiences.

[34:49] We’re very serious about keeping confidentiality, but talking about scenarios, those together, I think having those thought partners,

[34:58] people who can challenge you to just be better, is really important in any, in any industry, in any role.

[35:06] Tara Bansal: And I know you’ve done these get togethers that I’ve had the pleasure of going to where you just share incredible knowledge. And one was around just what you were saying, just how you may be perceived and giving away our power and that.

[35:28] How do you plan those and where did that come from? Even.

[35:34] Liz Koehler: Thank you for asking. I’m so glad you could come. It was lovely to have you there.

[35:38] So I can’t take credit for this, really. The, the gentleman who started the firm that I now work for has always been a firm believer and I completely agree in that.

[35:49] So oftentimes, busy professionals, busy leaders,

[35:52] don’t have a whole lot of extra time to nurture the networks that they want to, to meet other great people in the industry,

[36:00] to expand their own circles because they’re so busy, because they have so much going on.

[36:04] And it gets lonelier as we climb. We know that, right? Leaders, as they climb, it’s lonelier at the top. And so we try to really create intentional spaces for leaders to get together with others that we think can help support them,

[36:22] engage them, help them learn. Just good people to meet. And so we try to create these forums, these events where we can pull great people together, oftentimes their clients, their colleagues, their other coaches to convene.

[36:37] Sometimes we will have topics like, you know, what you just described, or we’ll have panel discussions around what it really means to lead today in an ever changing space.

[36:47] Sometimes we’ll just create the space for people to meet and get to know each other.

[36:51] And so that’s truly what it is, it’s connection. Selfishly, we get the chance to see a lot of our favorite people in one place,

[36:59] but it’s something that we found to be valuable to people and so we hope to keep doing it.

[37:04] Tara Bansal: And that brings up. You have done a lot of giving back to the community and how,

[37:14] I mean,

[37:15] how have you done that?

[37:17] And I don’t know what recommendations or lessons do you have around doing it?

[37:26] Liz Koehler: Yeah, I am very fortunate to have been able to be involved in some great organizations. One that I’ll call out specifically is ARM in arm, which is a nonprofit in our area that helps families across Mercer county who are food, housing, or job insecure and offer them support.

[37:43] I’ve been able to be on the board for 10 years. I was actually introduced and invited from a former BlackRock colleague, which I’ll be very grateful for forever.

[37:52] And I just started by participating in one of their events, and I learned more about the organization, got to know the people, and really wanted to get involved.

[38:00] And so it’s given me a lot. It’s given me a lot of joy in terms of giving back. It’s given me a lot of perspective and how lucky we are.

[38:07] And I’ve just met some incredible people that I wouldn’t have met otherwise. And so I think to your point, I just highly encourage folks who are listening if you aren’t already involved in some way.

[38:17] It doesn’t have to be a board position, per se, although that’s amazing experience,

[38:22] but just something that you’re passionate about, taking one small step to learning more about some of the nonprofits and organizations in your area.

[38:30] It’s incredibly meaningful and there are benefits you may not even realize that come from it,

[38:35] but it’s a great way to give back. So I’m very happy and will continue to look for those opportunities.

[38:43] Tara Bansal: What I’m trying to think, how to phrase this. What would you say is, like, the biggest lesson you’ve learned over your life so far?

[38:59] Liz Koehler: Wow,

[39:08] That’s a. That’s a good one. I’m pausing because it’s. There’s so many, Tara,

[39:12] so many lessons.

[39:14] Many learned the hard way.

[39:22] I guess it’s. So it’s okay to fail.

[39:25] And I share that because it’s one that was really hard for me growing up. I,

[39:31] again, like many, I’m sure you and many others was,

[39:34] you know, used to passing the test or working hard and getting something.

[39:41] Tara Bansal: And doing well.

[39:42] Liz Koehler: Yeah, and doing well.

[39:45] And so I’ll give an example that I think will resonate with our industry. Right.

[39:51] Although it’s just one example of many failures I’ve learned from and bounced back from.

[39:57] So I failed the CFA twice.

[40:01] I’ll explain it. So I was 22 years old. I was in a new city and a new job. I was missing my college friends. I took the 7, I took the 66, and I jumped into the CFA.

[40:10] And this is pretty symbolic of, I think, the ambitious person that I was for. For a while.

[40:20] I passed level one. Right. Five months of studying, spending time in college libraries was fortunate to pass. And then you roll into year two.

[40:29] Work’s getting harder.

[40:31] I spent many nights and weekends studying and I failed, and I failed level two.

[40:36] And I think for me, at that moment, because of what we just described, you’re, you know, generally used to being successful. I. It kind of.

[40:44] I kind of landed flat on that. It was a hard one to stomach, especially after all that time and that commitment.

[40:52] And so I said, okay, I’m gonna pull myself up. I’m gonna do it again. And I passed level two the second time.

[40:59] And now a few years have gone by. I’m in my 20s, and so I go for level three, thinking, here we go. I got this. We’re gonna wrap this up.

[41:05] We’re gonna be good.

[41:06] And I get the results back. And I had failed level three.

[41:10] And at this point, Tara, I’m thinking,

[41:13] oh, my gosh. Like, there’s no guarantee I’m gonna pass this thing. Am I gonna, like, go through my whole twenties just studying on nights and weekends? Like, what am I doing?

[41:22] All my friends are having a good time.

[41:24] Um,

[41:26] and so I finally decided I’m gonna give this another shot. And the reason I share the story. It’s just one kind of example, is when I got that letter in the mail that I had passed,

[41:35] it was so much sweeter than any of the easy wins I had gotten in my life. Right. And it was so much more about that notion of perseverance and just sticking with it.

[41:45] And. And it.

[41:46] It ties back to clients now, because I talk to incredibly smart clients who say, like, I’m just not natural at this. And I think there are very few naturals.

[41:56] I think sometimes it’s about just keep going,

[42:03] Tara Bansal: keep learning, and keep. Yeah. Oh, thank you for sharing that.

[42:08] Liz Koehler: Of course.

[42:08] Tara Bansal: I mean,

[42:09] because before I even asked it, I was almost thinking of asking, what is something you failed at and what did you learn from?

[42:18] And so you kind of answered both at the same time. But, yeah, for me,

[42:23] I.

[42:25] I failed my PhD qualifiers the first time, and I was just, like,

[42:30] devastated. I was the only one that failed, and I was just not used to that. And I was like,

[42:37] do I even want to try?

[42:39] I don’t know if you had that same, like. And even with the cfp, like, I was like, if I don’t pass, I’m not sure I’m doing this again.

[42:48] Thankfully, I passed,

[42:49] so.

[42:51] And yeah.

[42:53] Oh, thank you so much for all your time and wisdom. I have one last question.

[42:58] Liz Koehler: Of course.

[42:59] Tara Bansal: So if every woman listening remembered just one thing from our conversation today, what would you hope it would be?

[43:10] Liz Koehler: Oof.

[43:12] So good. Tara.

[43:14] Um.

[43:16] Look,

[43:17] earlier in my career,

[43:19] managing director at Blackrock was a story I told about myself.

[43:23] Uh, and when I left, when I chose to leave, I, I had to write a whole new one. And it was one of the hardest, but also one of the best things I’ve ever done.

[43:32] So what I would say is for the listeners, you know, the story you tell about yourself is a leadership decision.

[43:40] So just make sure it’s one that you actually choose.

[43:42] Hmm.

[43:43] Tara Bansal: That’s beautiful. Oh, so good.

[43:46] So,

[43:47] because that was so wise and concise, is there any question you wish I had asked that you would like to answer or share?

[43:57] Liz Koehler: Hmm.

[44:00] Um,

[44:02] maybe this idea, you know, you asked great questions, as you always do.

[44:06] Just more of a theme about giving yourself grace.

[44:10] And particularly for women, this notion of imposter syndrome continues to, to come up even in some of the most senior and, and qualified people. And I think,

[44:23] you know, especially in high performers,

[44:25] it rarely looks like insecurity.

[44:29] It looks like things like, you know, over preparing or not delegating or brushing off compliments or saying yes to everything. Right. So nobody can say you didn’t deliver on something.

[44:40] Um, and so I would just say for those folks who are grappling with that, there are a couple of strategies that I’ve talked to women and, and men and women clients about,

[44:51] you know, just some practical things if you don’t already do. You keep a folder of some of your wins. Right. Great deals that you’ve won.

[44:58] Thank you. Notes from clients or colleagues. People have been appreciative of the work that you’ve done.

[45:03] Just to remind yourself, especially on those tough days,

[45:06] um, what you are capable of and what you have accomplished,

[45:09] done consistently. That could be really powerful.

[45:12] I also heard from a coach of high performance athletes. He asks his high performing athletes at the end of each day to take 60 seconds to say, what are three things I did well today?

[45:23] It’s a little different than gratitude, which is great too, but it’s more around, you know, what are three things I did well? Whether it was delivering for a client, cooking a good meal.

[45:32] Right. You know, going for that run, I wanted to go for it. It doesn’t matter.

[45:36] But just doing it consistently and revisiting it can be really powerful.

[45:41] Tara Bansal: And then just going to open yourself up and acknowledge like that those positive things you’re doing. Yeah, totally.

[45:48] Liz Koehler: And then just finally going back to like one of the stories I had about some of the incredible leaders who saw things in me before I saw them in myself. Just being open to it.

[45:56] Right. I mentioned the story around someone who tapped me for a senior role to run something and I was like, oh, he’s got the wrong person.

[46:03] He didn’t.

[46:05] Right. And so confidence doesn’t come sometimes before we do the thing. It comes once we. Once we do the thing. And so paying attention to the people who know us best, who might be pushing us to try something or take on a new challenge, just being open to it.

[46:21] So that was just top of mind from some conversations I had with clients just this week. So thank you for letting me share that.

[46:27] Tara Bansal: No, and I feel like that’s often what a coach can also do,

[46:31] is, like, be that outside encouragement and supporter and help you stretch and grow for where.

[46:42] Where you’re ready and maybe you’re not ready to admit it or ready to do.

[46:48] Liz Koehler: Absolutely.

[46:49] Tara Bansal: Yeah. Thank you so much for being here. And this was such a joy.

[46:54] Liz Koehler: Oh, thank you, Tara. For me, too.

[46:58] Tara Bansal: There were so many things in this conversation that I wanted to pick as my key takeaway.

[47:04] There was the three different kinds of rest and how much we underestimate those micro moments of rest.

[47:14] There was the giving away our power and our influence where we don’t realize how we’re perceived and honestly don’t see our own blind spots. And to think about that.

[47:28] And the other one was Liz’s talking about perseverance as being one of her greatest strengths.

[47:38] And I truly believe almost every strength taken to an extreme is a weakness.

[47:45] And when she mentioned the perseverance that she has to realize that taken to an extreme can cause herself or those around her to be burnt out and to be aware of that.

[48:00] All of those were so many great things.

[48:03] But my key takeaway that I keep coming back to is this idea of being willing to fail.

[48:11] Sometimes I think we wait for confidence before we’re willing to do something.

[48:15] We think, once I feel ready,

[48:18] once I know I can do this, then I’ll take the risk.

[48:21] But I truly believe that confidence often doesn’t come first.

[48:26] Sometimes we have to do the thing before we feel ready, and the confidence comes because we were willing to try,

[48:33] or we get changed through the actual trying and doing it and maybe through the failure, too?

[48:40] And it leaves me with a question that feels really important for me right now.

[48:45] Once I admit what I want,

[48:48] am I willing to go after it and take the risk of failing at it?

[48:53] Because maybe slowing down enough to hear what we actually want is only the first step.

[48:59] We have to decide whether we’re willing to trust ourselves enough to go after it.

[49:04] And I think for me, that’s where the real courage comes in.

[49:10] Thank you for listening to her life her practice her way.

[49:13] I hope today’s conversation gave you something to think about and will help you slow down and hear yourself more clearly.

[49:21] If you know another woman who might enjoy or get something from this conversation,

[49:26] please share this episode with her.

[49:28] And until next time, I hope you’ll ask yourself the question I ask every guest and I keep coming back to you.

[49:36] What are you giving yourself permission to want right now?

Connect with Liz Koehler

• • Liz Koehler Linked In
  • RAC Leadership — Learn more about Liz’s executive coaching and leadership consulting.

 

Books & Authors Mentioned

• Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance by Angela Duckworth
• Situated by Angela Duckworth
• Angela Duckworth’s website

Additional Resources & Topics Discussed

• Hogan Assessments — Leadership and personality assessments used in executive coaching.
• Micro, mezzo, and macro recovery — Liz discusses three types of rest and why all three matter:
  • Micro: Brief restorative moments throughout the day, such as taking a walk, laughing, or connecting with a friend.
  • Mezzo: Longer opportunities for recovery, including sleep and relaxing meals.
  • Macro: Extended breaks, such as vacations and holidays.

• Rest and Recovery

  • Recovery from Work: Advancing the Field Toward the Future — Research exploring the importance of recovery during work breaks, evenings, weekends, and vacations.
  • Give Me a Break! The Benefits of Micro-Breaks — Research examining how short breaks can help reduce fatigue and restore energy.

Liz Koehler

Executive Coach and Leadership Consultant

Liz Koehler is an Executive Coach and Leadership Consultant dedicated to accelerating leadership effectiveness and building high-performance cultures. With over 20 years of experience in the high-stakes world of financial services, Liz understands how to compete and lead at scale while maintaining a human-centric approach.

Prior to her coaching career, Liz served as a Managing Director at BlackRock, where she ran multi-functional teams and was an established thought leader for financial professionals navigating industry transformation. Her tenure at BlackRock was defined by her ability to bridge strategy and empathy, overseeing growth for the Multi-Asset Solutions and Models businesses, leading Product Marketing and serving as Global Co-Head of the Women’s Initiative Network (WIN).

A 2021 Woman of the Year (Women in Asset Management), Liz now leverages her experience to sharpen leaders’ strategic edge and foster high-achieving, resilient teams that deliver differentiated performance. She serves on the boards of fintech Willow and non-profit Arm in Arm, and she lives with her family in New Jersey.

Specialty Areas

• Leadership Assessment
• Coaching, including:
• Leading through change
• Executive presence with depth and authenticity
• Strategic thinking in human terms
• Sustainable high performance
• Identity, confidence, and narrative
• Team Effectiveness and Team Coaching
• Keynote Speaking

Education and Certifications

• S. in Business from the McIntire School of Commerce at the University of Virginia
• Master’s degree in Applied Positive Psychology from the University of Pennsylvania
• CFA charter holder
• Hogan certification

Representative Clients

Allspring, Ardian, BlackRock, Bristol Myers Squibb, Chubb, Integrum, KKR, Morton Wealth, News Corp, PIMCO, TCW, TPG

Contact

Liz Koehler Linked In

RAC Leadership